296 Connor Howe
/Transcript
Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/296
Haley Radke: [00:00:00] This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing stated on it, either by its hosts or any guests, is to be construed as psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You are listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm Haley Radke. I am so excited to introduce you to our guest today. We are talking all about open adoption with Connor Howe, who you probably already know as Adopted Connor from his many videos online. We talk about Connor's personal story, including what it's like to grow up with a sibling that is your adoptive parent's biological child.
We also discuss what led Connor to get in front of the camera to critique adoption in such a public way. Before we get started, I wanna personally invite you to join our Patreon adoptee community today over on adopteeson.com/community, [00:01:00] which helps support you and also the show to support more adoptees around the world.
We wrap up with some recommended resources and as always, links to everything we'll be talking about today are on the website, adopteeson.com. Let's listen in.
I am so pleased to welcome to Adoptees On Connor Howe. Hi Connor.
Connor Howe: Hi Haley, thanks for having me. This is crazy.
Haley Radke: Why is it crazy?
Connor Howe: This is I'm sure everyone who's gone on the show before it's oh my gosh I've listened to a million episodes Pretty crazy.
Haley Radke: I'm real. You're real. We're both real. I'm so glad to talk to you today. Would you mind by starting and sharing some of your story with us?
Connor Howe: My mom was like 16 or 17, my biological mom, when she left her parents house dropped out of high school, moved to Ireland. I don't really know every detail of that part of her story, but she was living in Ireland. Started dating my dad and got pregnant. [00:02:00] At a certain point of her pregnancy, she flew back to the U. S. after, having a conversation with my dad about oh, I'm pregnant, you have a child. And as far as I can tell, he wasn't interested in really any of that. She flew back to the U. S., back to San Diego, where I was born. And I don't really know at what stage of her pregnancy, but I believe pretty late, based on the non identifying information I've read, that pretty late in her pregnancy, she went to the Catholic Church.
I don't know like how she approached it, but went to the church for help and they put her in counseling and ultimately she decided yeah, I think I got to give my kid a two parent home with the kind of loving suburban America, blah, blah, blah. I was relinquished for adoption as an infant in a pre birth match open adoption.
So I've known my mom for my whole life. I grew up pretty close to her proximity wise, but also like relationship wise. Not like super, super close, but yeah, I was like within driving distance of her for many years of my adolescence. And then she started moving around like later on [00:03:00] in my life, but that's my story.
And then I also have, like I said, this Irish dad who I still at 29 have never met, have never seen as far as I can tell, I'm still a secret to his family, my, my family. So it's a weird kind of intercountry, domestic, open, closed adoption. You know the classic story.
Haley Radke: The classic open/closed adoption. I think p eople have this idea that open adoption is a panacea. I've called it that for a long time, that people in society. This is what they say. This closed adoption is terrible, but open adoption is the solution to all the adoption problems. So you're the perfect person to talk about this with because my gen, most of us were closed adoptions and folks like you, late 20s, 30s, you're the first generation of people who really grew up in a truly promised open adoption. What did that really look like? [00:04:00]
Connor Howe: Yeah, definitely. And obviously I've, I've heard all these episodes and I've read all the memoir. I've read so much stuff, consumed everything. And I feel like the number one thing I hear, even in books that I read about adoption, written with adopted people in mind, is that, oh this was all really sad and this was all really challenging for these people, but now we have open adoptions and everything's fine.
And for me, that definitely wasn't necessarily like the case. I don't want to play, trauma Olympics. I'm sure that having access to information and relationships puts me at some type of an upper hand compared to someone else. But for me, it was really challenging. I feel like growing up and having this open adoption, I, where I never really felt comfortable being able to call my mom, she was always like my birth mom, or she was her first name.
The people around, like the siblings I had later in life were my half siblings, even though my adoptive brother was my brother, and for me, like the labels make things confusing. I also [00:05:00] feel and I've characterized this in some of my videos that like. Being in an open adoption, to me at least, feels like you have a summer camp relationship with someone, you see them, you're like a pen pal with them, maybe, but you have this like awesome, time that you spend in a very small window with them, and it feels awesome, you're like, oh my gosh, this is amazing, you're at summer camp, you don't have school, you don't have homework, you don't have any of these issues that you're dealing with, because it's usually on a vacation, or you're spending a weekend with them, or whatever it is.
And then you go back to the, to real life, right? You go down the hill and you go back to your house and school or work or whatever, it gets in the way of everything. And ultimately they're just like this person in a distant land. Like I said, my mom lived really close to me, but she wasn't really that involved in my life.
She never was at like a soccer game or basketball game, or I think she went to my high school graduation and I had her walk me down the aisle with my adoptive mom at my wedding, which, was really special. And we had the first dance and all that stuff, but at the same time, it was this, it was weird.
I remember being at my wedding and asking my [00:06:00] mom, Hey, will you do this with me? Cause you're my mom too. And she was in this position of feeling like, oh, I don't want to step on anyone's toes. I don't want to get involved when I shouldn't be involved. And I think like my adopters, my adoptive parents, my mom, everyone had good intentions.
Everyone did what they thought they should be doing. Because the adoption agency, puts them through this, whatever, this like day or a couple days long of a course where, oh yeah, we have an adoptee and a birth mom and a whoever that, gives us our two cents about how Open Adoption is this great new thing and it's going to fix everything.
But they really weren't given a I just feel like ultimately having a truly genuine uninhibited relationship with your family of origin and the idea of especially like the private infant adoption, those 2 things can't really coexist in a way that's healthy for the adopted person. If the adopted person is like the means to an end for someone.
Then having this relationship and acknowledging the natural parents, the natural [00:07:00] family, the family of origin, whatever, as like a family, not a family with a caveat in front of it is not giving the adopters the full experience they're paying for. And I don't want to sit here and say that like the family I grew up with, if that was like, if that was their expectation, like we need this and we don't want her in our life, they were pretty open.
They wanted everything to be as positive for all of us as it could be, but I don't really think that anyone was given a full understanding of the implications. And part of that was probably due to lack of understanding at the time. But I think, like I said, I think a lot of it has to do with the business model of if you're promised parenthood, you don't want to share certain parts of parenthood, even if you have the best of intentions. At least that was my experience.
Haley Radke: From my understanding your mom, your natural mom, went on to have other children that she parented. What's your age gap there?
Connor Howe: I have a younger sister who's about three years younger, and then I have three other siblings who are all high school age right now.
Haley Radke: Okay. I'm thinking of you as a kid, child, middle teen, like all those [00:08:00] years. What are you thinking about when you visit with your mom and or siblings? Like, why am I here and they're there? Did you think about that consciously?
Connor Howe: Yeah, it's really weird. For me, I remember, really vividly, like my first conversation with my mom where we had like the adoption talk and it was like, I don't really remember what was said.
I just remember being really uncomfortable and we got this Red Robin and yeah, I just remember she. And in years passing would talk about that and be like, yeah, you looked really uncomfortable or something like that. And I was like, yeah, I was and then, I don't think I really I have pictures.
This is like blowing my mind, but not that long ago, I was looking through pictures from like when I was a kid and I saw a picture of like me and my sister at the beach and I was like, I don't remember that I literally never. Thought I had seen my sister until I was in eighth grade. Cause I remember going to Starbucks with my sister.
My [00:09:00] mom was like, oh, you and your sister should go. And you should give her advice before high school. And I was like, cool. I don't really know this person, but I'll try to give her advice. And so that was really weird. I feel like seeing my sister as again, it's this person that like, you're not really introduced to them as this is your family, no, no caveats.
It's today I can look at them and use these labels and it feels less weird to see them as family. But when I was a kid, it's yeah, I don't know. It's just weird. When you're not, when it's not this is your mom. When it's this is your mom's name, or this is, your birth mom.
That's not true. There's something different. And you ask I didn't really start getting to know my siblings until I was about 18 or older. Because when I was growing up, I just didn't have really a relationship with them in that way. And also my youngest siblings are pretty, pretty young, so they weren't really like talking until I was out of high school, I think, but yeah, with that relationship, it's just weird.
I feel like I would think about that. And I still do. I think when I'm even today, like that [00:10:00] they're all going to do Christmas in this one place. And I'm invited, but it's not like a, hey, everyone in the family, we're going to be here this year. It's like a, oh, you guys are there. oh yeah, you're invited if you want to come and it's okay yeah, I could, but it doesn't really, I don't know, in my life, I don't know where I belong, where I don't belong and having multiple families just complicates everything because I do appreciate my relationships with everyone in my life to a certain extent, but I feel like I have a bunch of 50 to 75 percent relationships as opposed to having one or two full like 100 percent relationships where I feel like I'm trying to fit in, I'm trying to belong, but I don't really know where do I belong? Do I belong? Even if everyone else in the room around me is yeah what's different about Connor?
Haley Radke: You're blowing my mind a little bit, because I've had the similar conversations with my bio family I've been reunion with for like almost 13 years now. And it's okay, so y'all have a group chat, but like, [00:11:00] when do I get to be in it?
Connor Howe: I made the group chat and to me it was like, it was at first it was like, this is awesome.
And then it was like. This group chat's been around for a long time. I'm trying not to take it personal. I know it's not this like personal thing. I know it's not we don't want Connor here, but it's weird. They're family, but they're not family. And that goes for both of my families.
It's I am the black sheep in both of my families. I don't think that open adoption really fixed that or created a sense of belonging.
Haley Radke: Oh, I'm sure people are going to be thinking about that phrase for a while. Okay, going back to your adoptive family. So I'm making this assumption like an infertility to cause you to be adopted, but then they were able to get pregnant and have a biological child pretty close to you.
Connor Howe: Yes. I think it's four, four months after me.
Haley Radke: Okay. So your adoptive mother was [00:12:00] pregnant when you were placed with them?
Connor Howe: Yes.
Haley Radke: Okay. And what's that relationship like? Because there's no more contrasting, like, how could you have, besides having a twin study, which, yikes if you think about all the adoptees who were twins separated, I'm laughing, it's just not, it's so bad, that's just absurd that anyone ever thought that was humane, but how did you feel growing up with a brother who's literally the biological child and you're the adopted child. So you said black sheep. Can you describe what that was like for you?
Connor Howe: Yeah, I mean it's I haven't talked a lot about this because it's like I still don't really know how to feel about everything You know, I have such a complicated relationship with my brother we've had like our ups and downs periods of time where you haven't talked to each other for like a year or so.
It's really weird it was really hard. I also feel like in open adoption in general. [00:13:00] Again, it's like people approach it and they're like how much can I get away with? How many kids can I adopt or can I adopt a kid with a biological sibling? It's all about what can I achieve?
And for me, I feel like there wasn't much consideration to how insane of an environment that really was. I think there was like a ton of physical violence between both of us repeatedly pretty much every single day for 18 years. It's like you have this like twin relationship, but you're not twins.
You don't have that connection. You just have all the negatives, right? It's like the insane sibling rivalry, all this competition and all at the same time. Not trying to point fingers or anything, but no one in my family was really able to recognize, myself included, that I was different. It was like, I'm as if born to.
So whenever I felt like why is, why do I feel this way? It was always we don't treat you guys [00:14:00] any differently, if we give Connor 5 bucks, we give his brother 5 bucks. If Connor gets punished for violence, this is the punishment. If his brother gets punished for violence, this is the punishment, right?
If I have bad grades it's, everything is equal to the penny, even to this day. It's a really bizarre kind of I don't know, I just feel like adoption creates this pressure to treat everyone perfectly equally and I, I make a lot of videos online and whenever people, one of the most common comments I get is it's really clear that, you didn't have the right adopters, adoptive parents and to me, it's honestly I don't really feel like that was the issue.
I feel like my adoptive parents did the best they could. But really, were not equipped to understand that their approach was the exact wrong thing to do. And I think it's really jarring to people to hear that treating an adopted person and treating a biological child exactly the same is actually not what you should do at all.
Treating us exactly the same, at least for me, was like, oh, you [00:15:00] constantly feel depressed. You constantly feel all of these different things that, for some reason, our biological child isn't feeling. That's a you problem. You're just being a victim. Get over it. We treat you both the exact same.
For me, it's yeah, having that really close in age relationship was just like I think torture for both of us, I would get all of this attention that he didn't get because I was having all these problems and then I think it that made him, resent me for all the attention I got and, he'd poke and poke and I was very easy to poke because I would get triggered at literally anything, a leaf hitting the ground would set me off.
And yeah, we were just completely insane people. I feel like for many years of my life. And I don't really advocate against many things, but I will say that I feel like raising an adopted person with a sibling, especially a sibling so close in age that as that biological relationship is just like a recipe for absolute disaster, we would go to school and we were in separate grades because if we were in the same grade, [00:16:00] we would fight.
We had classes that we were never like in the same class except for like once or twice, and we had a PE class together one time. And the coach, I remember the whole semester was trying to figure out should they be on the same team or should they be on different teams? Because ultimately, no matter what, every single day, the class is gonna get derailed by these two kids getting in a literal fight in front of everyone. It was chaos.
Haley Radke: I think anyone on the outside looking in objectively can be like, you can't possibly love your children the same. You just can't. This one literally came out of my body with my DNA versus, the baby we signed the paperwork for. It's just not. It's just not the same.
Connor Howe: I would have rather heard that it's not the same, honestly. It would have made me feel normal. Like that I'm allowed to not like that. I'm allowed to feel what I'm feeling. I already felt less than, so it's not like the perfectly equal treatment that everyone thinks is like the ideal parenting norm. Gaslighting me for my whole life didn't [00:17:00] make me feel like I was an equal. I still felt unequal.
Haley Radke: Oh my gosh.
Connor Howe: And I don't say that I don't think they were doing that intentionally, I think they really thought that was best. I think everyone in my life did what they thought was best and that's what's really sad.
Haley Radke: And we still have adoptive parents all over the internet saying those things to us no, I love them all the same. I love them all, I treat them all the same. They're, that's the right thing to do. Okay. You are a super public creator of videos saying the true things about adoption, and, in my opinion, the true things about adoption, and yours probably.
Connor Howe: I'm hopeful.
Haley Radke: When did you feel comfortable and safe enough to say those things out loud, critiquing adoption publicly with your name?
Connor Howe: I listened to, and I'm not just saying this because I'm on your podcast, but I started coming out of the fog and I listened to a lot of your podcasts. I read all the memoirs, Anne Heffron, Nicole Chung. You can go down the list. [00:18:00] I read probably like 30 of them. I read, the books that aren't written by adopted people about adoption.
I I heard all of it. I read all of it. And for me, I just, I came out of the fog like a couple of years ago, around 2022. That was like when I first started. And I was going to therapy, I was in support groups, I was doing all this stuff and really something pulled on me. I just felt I hear all these different experiences.
And again I don't want to, I can't point out one specific thing, but I remember reading the book, American Baby. I think it was by Gabrielle Glaser. And the whole book was like, awesome. 99 percent of it was awesome. It was like this story about, this Jewish adopted person who was born and or adopted from the Louise Wise agency, which I think was one of the big agencies doing the twin studies at the end of his life.
He or his natural parents or the kids natural parents, like both have this realization that they were thinking about this child. They relinquish, even though they never talked about him or whatever for so many years of his life. And he had all these, they had all these like different discoveries [00:19:00] about things that could have, that should have been different basically, like he had this genetically inherited illness or something that if he had known about his biological history, his medical history, maybe something could have been done about it and he went to die the exact same way his dad died.
And at the end of the book there was this chapter that was basically saying oh open adoption fixes everything now. It's all everything's fine today. And I just, I think something, I can't point to that one specific thing. Cause there's so many examples of it. I feel like where to see it.
And to me, growing up, feeling like I'm a case study that people are pointing to of hey, lookit, this kid has this great life. He has this great life even though I'm completely suffering in silence for my whole life. I get to a certain point where, again, I'm just reading this stuff and I realize, I can't stay silent about this when there's so many people that are probably growing up exactly the same way that I grew up and will continue to grow up the way that I grew up.
Being [00:20:00] gaslit into compliance and being told you should be grateful you're happy, you have this good life. I don't want to sit here and say I have a terrible life or a bad life there's a lot of things to be, like, a lot of blessings, a lot of things to be grateful for, but I really feel like the recipe for my life was like, the ingredients, you can't make a cake when you don't have the ingredients to make a cake.
When you give someone pepper and like bug spray and you're like, here, make a cake. You can't make a cake that way. And I just feel like I don't really want to sit here and say I feel a specific way about anything, but I don't like the idea that I have been, not necessarily like me specifically, but open adoption adopted people are like paraded around as this panacea, like you say, when that just really wasn't the case.
And I, like many other people have, spent years of my life in the fog and did the whole, oh, open adoption is great. I'm so grateful. Adoption made my life amazing. But I think, yeah, really just seeing other people [00:21:00] talking about how people like me are the ones that are grateful and seeing like all the invalidation online, right?
You go on like the adoption subreddit, for example, or any Facebook group about adoption, and people will just say, oh this is just negativity bias. There's actually you know, for every one of you that are complaining online, there's actually thousands of people that aren't complaining online and we can safely assume that all of them are perfectly happy with every single detail of their lives because if they weren't happy, they'd be complaining on the internet, right?
No one who's unhappy doesn't go on this specific subreddit and complain about it, but that's literally how people will talk to adopted people. I think for me also, yeah, just being an internet warrior in the comment section of these subreddits and Facebook groups and like seeing the hostility at adopted people experience, like at first for me, it was really hard to get these comments.
But when I realized I could handle them, I realized, you know what I see a lot of adopted people doing good things and saying a lot of the important things, but I think there's also room to even go a little further and to reject the adoption positive language. [00:22:00] And the idea that open adoption is the panacea of the adoption, the idea that adoption is even a social mechanism that meets the needs of children for me, I just feel like, I want to elevate our movement of people and have our voices heard.
And obviously not everyone's going to agree with my, whatever my ideas are for solutions or my ideologies. But I really wanted to, yeah, to challenge the kind of societal narratives that I kept seeing that were like using me as this like political prop.
Haley Radke: You have said something. Adoption is the systematic removal of children from poor families to rich families.
Connor Howe: Yeah. It's we think that's like the best thing because I grew up, in suburbia. I had this like rich family and I got a car when I turned 16. I got college paid for after, I got my scholarship. There's a lot of blessings that I have in my life that I'm really grateful for.
One thing I'll say is like when I, in 2014, I spent, I grew up in the [00:23:00] church, like a lot of adopted people and I did a summer long mission trip, so to speak, in the Dominican Republic, where I basically, it was like working at a social work site with a bunch of kids living in complete poverty. And the whole thing is like, oh, just play soccer with them and talk to them about Jesus and blah, blah, blah.
I think for me, when I went on that trip, I didn't realize it at the time, but looking and looking back, and I still have a lot of relationships, these kids and talk to them a lot, and sometimes they ask for money, sometimes they don't. But for me, I realized like for me, having that community with those people and that they're all my they're all, 18 years old or 10 years older, however much older they were, they are than they were when I saw them.
And they're all still connected. They're all still friends. They have their community. And I'm not trying to say that these kids living in poverty wouldn't have it better if they lived in a white picket fence, but there is an element of togetherness that they have that I didn't have growing up in this, American dreamland that they would all, kill for probably.
And I'm not trying to sit here and say that, again, affluence isn't necessarily an improvement, but I think [00:24:00] it's the only metric we look at when we look at adoption, right? Adopted people grow up in more affluence, like statistically speaking, than the people that don't get adopted or whatever we want to say.
And for me, this idea that yeah, growing up rich makes your life better for me, that just wasn't true at all. And honestly, like when I get all these Christmas presents for my kid, or I, I drive around the neighborhood and there's like nice houses or whatever and whatever neighborhood I'm driving through.
It's I come to almost resent all of the money of this is I didn't need this much money. I just needed this connection that I feel like I've been searching for my whole life that I haven't had.
Haley Radke: And you knew her, right?
Connor Howe: Yeah.
Haley Radke: I think that's what people don't, I think, I hope people can understand that, that even though you knew her name, you got to meet with her. It's not the same.
Connor Howe: Yeah.
Haley Radke: Oh, okay. I have so many things I want to ask you about. I'm going to go to your content creation. [00:25:00] So a piece of my mind in the background is always are you worried about what this could cost you being public? And I didn't. When I started my show, I didn't anticipate this either, so I went in using my full name and would I have done that now? Maybe not. Like I've said that before. And so I'm curious how you think about that. Because at one point, you decided, I'm going to be online with my full name and say these things outright, which you've answered, but I'm curious about, that's like rumbling in the background as I'm asking you these things.
Here's the themes of the common pushbacks I've seen you have, and you're like, I can take the comments.
Connor Howe: I'm ready for it.
Haley Radke: Holy crap. Okay. We'd love an alternative connor, what's your plan?
Connor Howe: My plan's easy, right? It's just support people. I was in Ireland like a couple months ago. And and it was like, I was walking around, I didn't see any homeless people on the street for [00:26:00] one.
And I was like, this is crazy. I live in San Diego. It's like a city with a massive homeless population. And I'm not trying to sit here and play, politician and solve the world's problems. But it's I feel like when I was in Ireland, one thing I really was observant to was the fact that they just take care of their people.
Social welfare isn't this radical idea. America is just like one of the only countries that's you know what, let's just not do that. Instead, let's just villainize poor people and I don't know, be mad about people for not being able to afford basic housing or the afford being able to afford to raise their kids.
And I'm like, I'm not, I can't sit here and say that, $1, 000 was the difference between my mom raising me and not raising me. I don't know what was going on in her brain at that time, but I feel if you look at adoption as a system rather than just a, hey, every single adopted person is one use case.
Money changes things. When you look at countries like Australia, when you look at most of the EU, any level of financial assistance to women, or like mothers, or parents in [00:27:00] general, is going to decrease the rate of adoption. I think in Australia, and I love talking about this, the Australia stat that just blows my mind is the fact that in the United States, we facilitate more adoptions in a calendar year than, or in a calendar day, than Australia facilitates in a calendar year.
I'll say it again. The United States facilitates more adoptions in one day than Australia facilitates in an entire year. And obviously, different populations, different circumstances, whatever. It's a big country. It's not like we're talking about Ecuador. We're talking about Australia. We facilitate more adoptions in Australia in one day than they do in a year.
It's crazy. But again, it's you can eliminate adoption. The world existed without adoption longer than it's existed with adoption. So yeah, support people. It's a very basic concept.
Haley Radke: God, I'm so sorry you had a bad experience.
Connor Howe: Yeah, I don't really know what people want me to say to that. I think people have this idea that adopted people with good experiences can't have critiques of the societal pressures that ultimately [00:28:00] push women into deciding on adoption. For me, I could have the best life or the worst life ever. I still am going to have opinions about politics, right? And like adoption, whether people want to believe it or not, is an extremely political decision.
I think many adopted people are Democrats. And yet the biggest piece of legislation that adoptees would probably would point to is like, this is not great, is the Adoption Safe Families Act passed by Bill Clinton in the late 90s. We have a bipartisan legislature in this country, or whatever you want to say, that promotes adoption.
Obviously for different reasons. One side wants control over, particular groups of people. The other side wants to give children to anyone who wants a child. But both sides do, I would say. And, I I don't know. Anyways I just, I feel like I can have a positive or negative experience and have opinions about adoption.
Me having a negative or positive experience doesn't really change my opinions or I guess people just want to believe [00:29:00] that those who have negative experiences in life like their voices shouldn't be heard. I feel like it's almost telling on yourself, right? Oh that some homeless guy on the street who has a problem with the minimum wage. It's oh, yeah of course you have a problem with the minimum wage because you know if we just paid you a million dollars you'd be living on the street.
It's hey, The guy probably has a point, if he was making like a living wage, then yeah, he probably wouldn't be sleeping on the street. Again, it's if we supported people in this country, maybe adoptions wouldn't be as prominent or prevalent. And yeah, I don't think it's a good thing.
If I have a very complicated experience. I would say it's more negative than positive. Maybe I wouldn't say it to a person who's criticizing me and accusing me of having this, negative bias or experience or whatever. But again, there's people who've had more positive experiences than me that have just as many criticisms.
There's people who have more negative experiences than me that have way more positive things to say about adoption. I don't know. It's just people are, people have different experiences.
Haley Radke: Actual comment you got we have a very open adoption and it worked for all of us.
Connor Howe: I like that when people say that [00:30:00] they let people have no problem speaking for the adopted person.
Obviously that applies to every adoption, but it's yeah, of course that this person who I'm speaking for is happy because yeah, my dog loves the way I treat my dog. My dog has not once ever complained about not getting enough walks, my dog has never complained about me not feeding her enough.
My dog has never said that I don't cuddle her well enough at night when we're sleeping together. Yeah, of course that if you can, if you want to speak for someone, like they're never going to have complaints. But, I just feel like when I make these videos, it's like I just want adopted people to have their own voice, right?
And it's I It drives me crazy that people speak for us. That's the reason why I started doing all of this is because again, these adoption agencies, they say hey, all these open adoption adoptees are so happy. It's I haven't read a single memoir from an open adopt, like a per an adopted person.
If you look at open adoption on Goodreads or Amazon or whatever. I don't think there's ever been a book written on open adoption by an adopted person. I could be wrong. Fact check. Please, if someone's listening to this, fact check me because I want [00:31:00] to be the first.
Haley Radke: Yeah, tell us.
Connor Howe: But it drives me crazy that that so many people speak for people like me when it's you don't, none of us know, I didn't know how I felt about adoption until I was, 27. And I feel like I was early. I'd be in these support groups and people were like, whoa, you're really young to be here.
Haley Radke: Oh, that's what I was thinking. Truthfully, before we got on, I was like, how'd you do it so early? And people say that to me. Also, how'd you do that so early? People in their 50s or 60s are finally thinking about it. Or 70s, who knows? God, I hope you get the help you need, Connor. You need to go to therapy.
Connor Howe: Yeah, I get that all the time. It's it's, I don't know why people think it's I don't know.
Haley Radke: That's an own.
Connor Howe: I also think if you're telling someone to go to therapy, that probably says more about you than it says about someone else, especially when you're accusing some internet stranger of needing help. Like today I woke up to, and I don't get this every day, but I woke up to some like barrage of DMs from people that were upset with one of the videos I [00:32:00] posted.
And they were all I don't know, they're saying whatever they're saying, and I just messaged all of them oh, I'm sorry I triggered you or something like that. And they were like, I'm not triggered, I'm not triggered. And it's okay if you think I need if you're the one that thinks I need therapy, why are you DMing a complete stranger on Instagram telling them that they need help?
It's just a little weird. And, for me, Yeah, I've done a lot of work. I probably do need therapy. I don't know. Ironically, if I had the financial means to pay for more therapy, I'd be paying for it. And one thing I really appreciate about this show is that you make so much of the therapy resources and conversations accessible to all adopted people because, yeah, it's a huge issue.
A lot of us do need therapy. It's not like I am gonna sit here and say, oh yeah, I'm 100 percent fixed. I don't think I ever will be. But that doesn't really change the fact that telling someone online to go get therapy is probably more of a reflection of your mental health than it is of theirs.
Haley Radke: But even if it was on us, it's yeah, I do need [00:33:00] therapy, because I got adopted.
Connor Howe: That's why I'm making these videos, bro.
Haley Radke: Yeah, oh, you get it. Okay good, okay. oh my gosh, there's so many more. What should I do my last one? Oh let's talk about the policing your language. You have chosen to use say adopters most often in your videos. And you most often say natural mother, and so people get really mad about that, including adoptees. Including adoptees, when you say adopters.
Connor Howe: People really don't like it. Yeah.
Haley Radke: I should, I'm just going to give the caveat. The adoptees I've seen push back on that are ones who I would classify as people that maybe haven't looked through the full impact of adoption on their lives yet.
Connor Howe: Yeah. I think, I look at all this as a, like I said. As a marketer and someone who's interested in politics, I look at adoption as like a system, like I said, rather than an individual act and [00:34:00] you can look at the history of adoption. It's not that. It's not easy to find. I think the adoption agencies know what they're doing and not being that open with where a lot of this stuff comes from, but open it like the positive adoption language, respectful adoption language all stems from Marietta Spencer who was, an adoptive mother who didn't like the idea that adopted people were seen as adopted people. She wanted them to feel like as if born to basically. She also didn't like being called, an adoptive mother. She just wanted to be a mother and her whole, which I know is surprising.
Haley Radke: Or a real mother.
Connor Howe: Yeah, a real mother. She is the real mother, like we don't get to decide that. Who are we to have opinions about things? All of this really stems from the best practices, quote unquote, today.all stem from, a woman that I would classify as at the very least insecure and someone who wanted to police the language of adoption. And I think another part, like I said, [00:35:00] of why I do what I do and why I use the language that I use is that I see, adopted people who have really good intentions, who are trying to work from within the system and change things.
I read books written by adopted people. Adoptive people I really respect, books I really love that use the term birth mom, use the term my mom, my real mom, whatever. And for me, it's I don't like that the language pushes us in a direction. I just wish that adopted people had agency over our own lives.
And I feel like when we use language that really enforces these relationships on us. Like that, that this is who this person is to you. You don't really have a choice of like mom or dad or whatever. It's just hard to feel like you have control in your own life. I, when I was young, I was trained to call, my adoptive parents, mom and dad, I would, I'd get in trouble if I didn't respond to them with yes, mom or yes, dad.
And I'm not going to sit here and say that I was like a two year old, I was, raising my fist and sticking it [00:36:00] to the man or whatever and trying not to call them that. But I also think that I feel like I didn't really belong in that sense, and I didn't feel like I felt like there was something different, especially knowing that I do have a mom out there who is my she's my mom, right?
When you're two, you're not thinking about the complexities of adoption. You just know that there's some lady out there who looks like you, who sounds like you, who you probably know you came out of. I don't know. Like I don't know what's going on in a two year old's brain. I have a two year old, but I, yeah, it's just all that stuff is really complicated and people really, take offense to terms that were very common in American language prior to the 1970s, prior to 1970s, we use the term natural mother, we use the term adopters, we use this language.
And then when you look at these I love seeing the adoption agency, like the grids of here's what not to say. And then here's what to say, I always like looking at the left column, because it's always the words I use, like natural mother, adopters, whatever. It's this is why these words are evil.
And it's never, I have never, The reasons those words are bad never [00:37:00] have anything to do with the adopted person. Never. It's, I'm not trying to sit here and say that adopters or adoptive parents aren't owed some level of respect or that natural parents are, like, that any of the adults in our life are or aren't owed some level of respect.
I get it. Adults are adults. They're the people that raise you. They're the people that birth you. Whatever. Adopted people all have complicated relationships with the adults in our lives. But I feel like it's very telling that this industry, which it is an industry, enforces language that, it's language that is used to propagandize adoption.
That adoption creates parents. It gives the gift of parenthood. And to me, as the person that was sold, it doesn't really feel like you're selling parenthood. It feels like you're selling humans. And yeah, I just feel like people need to hear the actual language that was used before adoption became propagandized because I think it [00:38:00] might I don't know, I just feel like if enough people hear the word adopter, if enough people hear the word natural parent, And it becomes normal to not have to use a specific like that that we don't societally acknowledge one person as the unconditional parent, whether it's in any direction that the adopted people are respected like oh, Connor can choose who he feels his family. Like we outside of adoption. We have all of these people that are like, oh, I grew up these terrible parents or whatever. And now I have this chosen family and people will refer to non genetic relatives as like family members, but for some reason when adopted people want to challenge the status quo, and it's not even challenging the status quo. It's just like my mom is my mom that is a threat to people. It's just bizarre.
Haley Radke: I agree. Simply say I'll just agree. We have a lot of folks that listen who are adoptees who have maybe heard my call to let's tell the whole truth about adoption. Like yourself, [00:39:00] and it is, it can be so painful to be online and getting these kinds of things.
In fact I used to post some more provocative things and engage in the comments and I just, I literally couldn't do it anymore. And so I feel very thankful for people like you who are willing to do that. And I just thought, no, my biggest impact actually can just be, focus on the show.
So that's what I've chosen to do. And I'm just sensitive. I'm a sensitive person. What can I say? But I was looking back on my Twitter and I have screenshots of this every once in a while in my time hop I get reminded someone posted back when it was called Twitter. In almost every state in the U. S. it's illegal to separate puppies from the mother until they're eight weeks old. Why do we think four weeks parental leave is sufficient for anyone ever? And so I replied back and I was like, and here's the real kicker, infant adoption, the instant and permanent removal of babies from their mothers. And so another random person on this thread said, [00:40:00] wait, this is actually an interesting point.
Like I never thought of this before. Okay. And I was like, oh wow. Like I really did something there. So you're really doing something there on all your videos and you have, when we're recording this, TikTok is in jeopardy. So I'm having a weird time finding out how to talk about this because it's going to come out after.
Connor Howe: Yeah, maybe after TikTok is banned.
Haley Radke: Who knows? Behind the curtain, people. This is just what Haley's thinking about. But anyway. You have videos up on YouTube Shorts, you have Instagram Reels, you've got threads on Threads and TikTok. Which platforms are you finding the most traction versus pushback versus some of these idiotic and even worse comments? Way worse than whatever I read to you.
Connor Howe: Yeah, it's really funny because I post, I would say predominantly on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook. I don't ever really I never really looked at Facebook until a month or two [00:41:00] ago, and then it was so funny because the comments on Facebook are so much nastier than anywhere else. But then at the same time
Haley Radke: Worse than YouTube?
Connor Howe: Maybe, I don't know. YouTube sometimes people comment. I don't think, I don't think I get that many comments.
Haley Radke: Okay, I'll admit I did not look at the comments on Facebook. I looked at them on all the other platforms and what I saw was YouTube was horrendous.
Connor Howe: Yeah, YouTube's pretty bad but there's not, I feel like the videos don't perform as well on YouTube so I don't pay that much attention to it.
On Facebook it's really interesting because most, it's like 80, 90 percent of my followers are all women over the age of 65. And so it's really funny that there's so many old ladies out there. Sorry if that's offensive. I don't know if that's offensive or not, but that really hate what I have to say and are like trying to like, yeah, insult me or send me, threats or whatever.
Obviously there's like people of all ages. It's an, it's equal opportunity to throw jabs at me and it's fine. But I think the content [00:42:00] performs. What I'll say is I don't necessarily think it's the platform. I think what I've really learned in I've only been doing this for a few months, but I really feel like I focus on kind of what is the thing that is going to make the people who aren't adopted get it.
What is that sticking point? And like you said, I think that separating puppies versus separating babies is something, I don't know who the first person to say it was, but every once in a while, I have to make a video on infant separation because they always do well. If you look at any of the, Carpoozies, Melissa, Adoption Thoughts, Adoptee Thoughts, any of these people who have their top videos, one of them is probably going to be about infant separation because people just get it.
Yeah. Why do we separate babies when we don't separate puppies? I think the topic of re homing is for me at least in the past week or two, has just been going crazy. Because we saw with the Myka Stauffer thing on YouTube years ago, anyone who realizes that an adopted person is rejected by people who are supposed to care for them their whole lives, it's [00:43:00] like a betrayal of that contract.
And people really like to villainize the people that re home adopted people. I don't really necessarily feel like it's the, all of that attention comes from a compassion of the adopted person as much as a like an internet justice type of vendetta against, these evil people who re home children, but I feel like what I've discovered is that yeah, rehoming usually is a good way to get people to understand if that does, if it does happen, I don't know the exact data, but you can just say it happens way more often than people expect, and that's true, right?
We don't really associate rehoming with being a common occurrence in adoption. I don't know, I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I read an article not that long ago that was like, in certain cohorts of foster youth that are adopted, it's 10 to 25 percent of them are rehomed if they're, if they meet these criteria.
And to me, that's like pretty surprising. I don't think even someone who is out of the fog or listening to these podcasts would necessarily believe that the numbers can be that high. For let's say a foster youth who [00:44:00] came from a certain place or has these, mental challenges or whatever it may be.
I think rehoming is a big one. I think yeah, that's the infant separation. And I'm trying to figure out what those other things are. I think my goal with my videos is like, how do I get the guy who lives next door to me? To who hears me making videos in my backyard about adoption complaining, how do I get, the guy who every once in a while, I see the guy who lives directly behind me, who lives on a hill that overlooks my house that he's just this old man who has his back turned to me, but he might be wondering one day what's this guy rambling about this?
He's every day. He's complaining about adoption in his backyard. What is going to make that guy compassionate to the adopted person. And I feel like, yeah, at least for me it's really those two things. Instagram and Facebook, both. I will say I get a lot of the strength that I have to keep on making videos from the people that are sending me kind words.
I don't need, the validation from people, but I just, I feel like to know that when I'm making these videos, they're really not necessarily for specifically adopted people that they still click with adopted people. They still resonate [00:45:00] with other people. And that even people who don't always agree with me are like, hey, what do you think about this?
Or I really appreciated this to know that there's this community of people out there that even if they don't agree with every word that I'm saying that they appreciate that someone is putting themselves out there I just want to be that voice that people are not the voice, but a voice that people can get behind because I feel like we just are perpetually silenced and I will say that with all the negativity that I get on Facebook or Instagram, I see a lot of these adoption Facebook groups with the adopted people in charge that my videos will get posted there and they're like, let's go, fight the crusade in the comments and every time I see that I'm like, you guys really don't have to do that, it's not worth it, trust me I will respond to some comments but I will not respond to every comment and, usually, I get pretty troll y, because it's just I know that some of the videos that do really well are, like, something that isn't necessarily adoption entirely.
It'll be, like, adoption and race together, or it'll be, like, adoption and vaccination together. Anything that's politically charged, sometimes that will get a huge horde of [00:46:00] people that really don't even care what I'm saying. They're just like very on this crusade about whatever the this adjacent topic is and so for those videos or whatever that does really well, I'm just like, all I'm just gonna let these people own me in the comments or whatever. Even if it means, you know looking like I'm taking egg on the face for losing the battle but I just want to get the conversation out there. I don't mind being the punching bag for people if it means that one day other adopted people aren't going to have to grow up and be like this token, adoptee of oh, this person has a great life.
But again, to what you were saying earlier that, oh, my, my adoptee is really happy. I just don't want that to be a thing. I don't want adopted people to be spoken for.
Haley Radke: Thank you. I really hope people will go and subscribe on whatever platform. It sounds like your videos are all over whatever platform you're using.
Connor Howe: I want to caveat by saying people do not follow if it's too much, I understand it. I it's massive trigger warning for every video, every comment. It's I, [00:47:00] my goal with this really is to pop like the bubble of this conversation. And, I'm trying to use like whatever skills I have in marketing and social media to really elevate these conversations because for me, it's not about me being big.
It's about, I think if. If people can understand these conversations, then they read an All You Can Ever Know, or they read a one of our, one of these adopted people's memoirs, or they see a movie like Lion or whatever, and they have a little bit of compassion for the adopted person instead of this whatever the societal Disney orphan adoption narratives that we're so used to seeing.
I just want to elevate the voices of other adopted people. And I don't want necessarily to be that person that's the guy at the front line or whatever. But I think that in being able to elevate whatever pages I'm trying to grow, that will, by proxy, elevate, all the other adoption people.
Or people in adoption that are having these conversations and talking about this stuff. Because I just want to envision. I get so frustrated when people [00:48:00] say when people are like America, like, how can you ever imagine America creating a social safety net in our lifetime? It's just not going to happen.
There's this like nihilistic thinking in politics and especially adoption of we can't just get rid of adoption in our lifetime. And for me, it's like, why not? I want to see a real reason why we can't actually do something. Adopted people are fighting on the front lines for birth certificate access and all kinds of things like 24 seven and and we're meeting all kinds of resistance and we're still fighting, not just me, but all kinds of people, whether it's, the person who's talking to their city council person about trying to get birth certificate access, or it's someone who's on Facebook, leaving a comment on a viral video of, some kid get reading their adoption papers out loud for the first time, I think every adopted person is put into this position of we feel like we either have to defend adoption or attack adoption and I just want these conversations to be normal.
Haley Radke: Thank you for the trigger warning. I get it. It would be hard to watch media reviews. I've watched [00:49:00] almost all of them. I scrolled through and I watched and I read all the comments. On multiple platforms.
But I want people to follow you. Yes, as a support, but not just as a support. For the way you're speaking about current events it can teach people how to have these conversations or it's pointers for how we can respond when folks bring up whatever topic. Like you talked earlier about that you're, a marketer and, you have videos about, adoption agencies and their marketing budgets and in those kinds of things, right?
So all of those things put more tools in our toolkits as adoptees who are activists and wanting to speak up for ourselves in a way that doesn't necessarily cost our like full emotional labor by using our personal stories. You are doing it in a different way which I think is very instructive and [00:50:00] informative for us. So anyway, thank you for your work in that. I really appreciate it. What do you want to recommend to us, Connor?
Connor Howe: I want to recommend Caitríona Palmer's An Affair With My Mother. So when I was I didn't really tell this part of my story, but when I was coming out of the fog, I really started thinking about actually trying to search for my dad.
I, in 2015, had went to Ireland for the first time and just felt like I just connected. I don't really know if it's like soul and valor to say I feel like an intercountry adoptee, but I, my life started in Ireland and I have always, since I was born, felt this like profound connection to where I come from.
And even as a child, I was like. Any time I had a school project, it was, I would choose Ireland if it was about like some other country. And when I went to Ireland for the first time, I didn't really know anything. I knew what my dad's name was, I probably had seen a picture of him, but I didn't really I just wrote it off as something I can't really achieve.
Oh, he's just some guy living somewhere. [00:51:00] I remember watching Lion for the first time with my wife, probably like five or so years ago, and just crying. I feel like that was before, it was before I came out of the fog, but that was definitely one of those like indicators of something is weird about adoption.
I was like, I cried like every day of my childhood to the point where I feel like I lost tears and it's like really hard for me to cry at this point in my life. But that was just one of the moments where I cried so, so hard. And I literally stayed up for the next three hours, just saving every single picture of my dad or his family that I could find online.
And so when I came out of the fog and started initiating the search, I read, I was really like trying to figure out who is this guy? What does he think about anything? I don't know about anything about him. And I want to learn more about Ireland, about adoption. I was reading, books about Irish history, the history of adoption, Ireland, but I listened to your podcast with Caitríona Palmer.
I thought she was really articulate. I really loved her story and her books sounded awesome. So I [00:52:00] bought it. And I felt hey, it's similar. We're both like in these like secret Irish adoption relationships. And yeah, I just think it was a really good book. She has a very interesting life story in general that I feel like someone who isn't adopted would appreciate and yeah, this like secrecy angle to her story is very similar to mine and I feel like when I was able to read as many books like I read all these books, but really that book I think meant so much to me to be able to hear it from someone else who was in this kind of like secretive Irish relationship and understanding kind, I think she even talks a little bit about adoption in Ireland and like the legislation or norms in the country related to adoption and the stigmas.
It helps me understand some of the things I really wanted to understand in order to feel confident and comfortable kind of trying to find my dad or other members of my family and have these conversations, which I haven't been able to achieve to this date, but I have talked to some very distant relatives.
And yeah, I just feel like that [00:53:00] book really, for me, was, I think it gave me permission to try to initiate that search and really to like make these videos because ultimately I realize like what am I missing I'm missing out on this relationship with someone who I put on a pedestal for much of my life, even though all I heard was negative things about him, but I realized, okay if he's keeping me a secret for my whole life.
Am I really damaging him by just being honest about my own story online? I'm not saying his name. I'm not like sharing his information. And I just feel like, yeah, it might, that could, I guess what I'm doing could damage like relationships. I think more so the people in Ireland than the people in America in my life, but I don't really have relationships with those people.
And I feel like. Reading Caitríona talk about the pain of reunion and this like I don't want to spoil anything from the book but I think you read it to you like the kind of yeah, this like unwillingness really for her like that from her not her family of origin to acknowledge [00:54:00] her or someone in her family of origin, I should say, and to be vulnerable about who she was in relation to them like that for me, it rang very true. I've gotten rejected with extremely harsh rejection letters. From, I should say I got rejected partially from one person in my family, and then I knew someone else who basically went around and was telling everyone in the family, don't talk to this guy. To hear it from her and to see it, I realized, you know what, I might as well try, because, yeah I just felt like it gave me the kind of the courage to do it.
Haley Radke: I love Caitríona. Her book is amazing. And I absolutely agree. If you are someone, especially if you've been kept a secret by your biological family members. It is the book for you, for sure. Connor, what a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much for your work. And you said, I've only been doing a couple of months. I feel like the impact's been pretty big in those couple of months. So I appreciate it. And where can we connect with you and follow you online? [00:55:00]
Connor Howe: My Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube are all just adopted_conor. C O N O R. It's the American spelling of my Irish name. Shout out to yeah, the Irish Connors who spell it right.
But also if people want to add me on Facebook, like my personal, I don't know. I'm pretty, I feel like I'm pretty good about responding to DMs on Facebook or messages on Instagram or sorry, DMs on Instagram, messages on Facebook or whatever people could probably send me an email. I don't check my email as much, but.
Yeah any, even if you just leave a comment, I try to be as responsive as I can to everything. I think direct messages are, I'm going to see more, more likely than anything else. But yeah, Haley, I also just want to say thanks so much for having me on. I feel like I don't really know if I'd have the courage to be out there about a lot of this stuff if it wasn't for like your podcast.
I know you said that like you wanted to do that and felt like you need to be safe and I totally get that because I [00:56:00] have been like back and forth on like how open do I want to be? How vulnerable do I want to be? I just I think you being able to elevate adopted people's voices the way that you do gives people like the courage to share whatever they want to share. However, vulnerably or not vulnerably or whatever how open or not open for me I feel like your show is like the number one thing by far is like what made me feel comfortable and all this stuff and I really feel like I know you're not a therapist I know you're not a lawyer any of this stuff but whatever the caveat you put in your show is but I feel like this show really is what helps me become like a normal person.
I feel like I could be like a human. I don't know how to say it. It's just weird. I really appreciate so much like all of what you've done and all of your guests as well. I feel like I, I don't know. It's been very healing to come out of the fog, even though it's been like, crazy at the same time. I think a lot of that just most of that really has to do with this show. So
Haley Radke: Thanks very much. I appreciate that[00:57:00]
You know after my interview with Connor I truly didn't know that he was inspired by Adoptee's On. I knew he had listened to it before but I didn't know what he shared with us during the interview and the whole rest of the day I was just like thinking about the ripples that we can make for people and I had, I think I've shared this before, but I know that some of you, I've heard from several listeners who listened to Adoptees On and then decided to go back to school and become therapists for Adoptees, which is so amazing.
And then I think about people who will watch Connor's videos and maybe it'll get them thinking about what adoption really [00:58:00] means and what that really looks like and how it really impacts adopted people and first parents. So think about the ripples that you make when you share your personal story, your personal experiences, when you tell the whole truth about your adoption experience and some of those ripples like we'll probably never know I'll probably never know all the people who've listened to adoptees on and I'll probably never know all the people who you know started their own podcast because they listened to the show or started blogging or started their sub stack or started their you know, online advocacy in some way, or just shared with their friends and family about what they're exploring.
I'll probably never know that, but it's pretty cool to think that this show has had that kind of impact on people's lives. It's [00:59:00] really special. And I've shared this with a lot of people that I've interviewed privately behind the scenes. But when I have a difficult day, or things are challenging in some way, I have this wall in front of me of notes and letters from listeners who have written to me and shared what the show has meant to me. And so I always look up at the wall and there's photos and cards and things, and it always makes me be like, okay, I know I'm doing the right thing. I know I'm doing it for them. And it helps me to keep going.
So stories like Connor sharing that with me and those of you who've emailed me and shared other things I just, I'm grateful that I can make this for you and that it's meant something to you because it means so much to me. So thank you. Thank you for listening and let's [01:00:00] talk again soon.
