131 [Healing Series] Microaggressions
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Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/131
Haley Radke: This show is listener-supported. You can join us and help our show grow to support more adoptees by going to Adopteeson.com/partner.
You are listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm your host, Haley Radke, and this is a special episode in our Healing Series, where I interview therapists who are also adoptees themselves, so they know from personal experience what it feels like to be an adoptee. Today we are talking about microaggressions. Oh my goodness, this is so interesting. Okay, let's listen in.
I am so pleased to welcome to Adoptees On, Melanie Chung-Sherman. Welcome, Melanie.
Melanie Chung-Sherman: Thank you. I'm so excited to be on. I've been following your work.
Haley Radke: Aw, thank you. I'm so, so joyful to have you on the show today. I can't believe it's your first time on. I already said this is embarrassing to me that you haven't been on before, so welcome. And since it is your first time, would you mind just sharing a little bit about your story with us so we can kind-of get to know you a little bit?
Melanie Chung-Sherman: Right. Well, I am a transracial, international adoptee and one of the end of the first wave of Korean adoptees. I was adopted in the late 70s and placed in the land of gazillion adoptees in Minneapolis, MN, and my adoptive family moved my brother and I and my youngest brother down to Texas, my youngest brother being biologically born to my parents and my younger brother is also KAD –Korean adoptee– as well. So I was raised in pretty much the Deep South, outside of Fort Worth, TX, and have really established my roots and wings there, out of all places. Where I feel both at home, and then sometimes as foreign or international or– just in terms of my own lived experiences, I’m walking in the world holding a lot of different identities, particularly as a woman of color, an immigrant, and a transracial adoptee in the South. And that's really framed the work that I do today, and the work that I do within the adoption community, and advocacy outside the adoption community with more marginalized populations.
Haley Radke: Yeah, that's got to be a varied experience you've had there, to say the least. Can you just tell us, just briefly, how you decided to go into social work and then into therapy, and just a little bit about your work in that area?
Melanie Chung-Sherman: I think like for many –I definitely cannot speak for all– I really look at the numbers of adoptive people who enter into the field, helping professions specifically. And I don't believe that I'm any more unique than the rest, who are doing some amazing and challenging work specifically in social work, mental health, and helping professions.
From a really young age, I knew that I wanted to be able to lift up others in a way that was unique to the stories and the lived experiences that my brother and I had. We grew up pretty much in total whiteness. Just to give some context, the high school that both my brother and I graduated from still had the Confederate flag. We sang “The Spirit of Dixie” in every homecoming, every football game, and it was indoctrinated and normalized. It really wasn't until I moved out of that space that I really began to realize just how impactful that was, particularly within an experience as trying to fit into a community there, and then at the same time trying to really build identity. Nothing mirrored that experience. In a lot of ways we had to align within the community, and even then, at a young age, I still felt it was incongruent, but I didn't have the words to say what it was, nor did I have anyone to really mirror back about how obtuse it was and how strange and odd it was for kids of color, particularly Asian kids, to be in these spaces.
As a social worker, I got really involved when I started working in the adoption field, and that was really the catalyst into learning more about the social work profession. But my undergrad was actually in theater. I finished at Texas Wesleyan University with a bachelor's in theater arts, which I always say is the most expensive therapy that I'm still paying off. In terms of identity formation and deconstruction, I could be all these things, and I didn't have to be parts of myself, and yet I found a lot of myself in that. And I think that's also given me a space to be much more comfortable in other people's difficult narratives.
So I could try on all these characters and storylines, but was always drawn to loss. I was always drawn to characters that didn't fit within the box. It really was other adoptees, as I moved into mid-adulthood –it really wasn't until my late 20s and my early 30s, that I really started establishing friendships within the adoption community, particularly in the Korean adoptee community– that I started putting the pieces together: ‘Oh, that's why I've been doing this.’
And social work just fit. I fell in love with NASW's code of ethics and the values, social justice being at the core of our six values that we hold. The dignity and worth of a human being. The importance of human relationships. I mean, all this spoke to the very fundamental parts of myself that didn't always align with the spaces that I grew up in or the spaces I existed in.
I think I've always been comfortable in tension. I think most adoptees are. Within ourselves, I think there is this space that we can really hold the complexities of the narratives between things that are congruent and make sense, and things that don't. And I know that social work, and learning about other people's stories and holding that with great esteem, privilege, and respect as I hear –particularly from those whose voices don't always get heard– is really exciting. It's challenging and hard at times. It's heartbreaking at times, but yet it's humanizing. So I was drawn into the profession and, yeah, here I am. I love it.
Haley Radke: That's beautiful and it's also heartbreaking, right? And you talking about liking to be in the conf– not conflict, but in the challenging spot. Whew! In the tension? Yikes! That makes me uncomfortable. Okay. I feel like I don't fit there. But yeah, we do. We do live in that space a lot of the time.
Melanie Chung-Sherman: And yet you have this platform and it is! That's an exciting part of our experience, I think.
Haley Radke: Yes, well, I notice you challenging people regularly over social media and calling to our attention some of these really deeply seated things and really pushing us to look deeper at so many different issues. Which is so admirable, and as I just said, that makes me really uncomfortable a lot of the time.
But a lot of adoptees, we're navigating these microaggressions constantly and some of us don't even realize it. We are going to focus in on talking about microaggressions today, but can you tell us what is a microaggression, and just put your adoptee slant on it because a lot of us, we might have heard that term before, but not necessarily know what it means or how it would apply to our own lives.
Melanie Chung-Sherman: Right. How I describe it, particularly when I'm working with clients, particularly adoptees who are clients, is it feels like a death by a million paper cuts. These are comments or statements that may not have the intention of being pejorative or may not have the intention of being negative in the impact, but they can be othering, and they can feel marginalizing. They feel heavy. And they feel like there's something within the very core of my identity that someone has made a pretty flippant statement.
So it really is stereotypes come alive in small to large actions, or comments or dismissals. You know, the microaggressions, particularly towards adoptees, the things that we've heard: “You should be so grateful that you're adopted.” Well, it's very loaded and it's silencing too, so it shuts down deeper dialogue because automatically there is this visceral sense when it's happening. I myself still get flabbergasted. There is that part of me, that young part of myself that will always be there, the pleaser part, the ‘don't leave me’ part. The ‘I don't wanna be rejected’ part. And yet also the advocate and the fighter: ‘I've worked really hard to get to this space, to utilize’ voice, and ‘I know what's happening here’.
Microaggressions can be based on any part of our identity, but I think particularly as adoptees, we really hold, for so long– I think one of the most challenging parts of –for many, not all, but for many– we'll call it ‘coming out of the fog’, is actually deconstructing the denial, deconstructing the statements that we've heard throughout our lives. I've had to deny parts of how incongruent or how disconcerting that was internally for myself, and put that into another context to go, ‘Wow, that was actually harmful,’ or ‘That was hurtful,’ or, ‘And that's not in my mind’. And so I think sometimes microaggressions in a lot of ways can also be a form of psychological gaslighting.
So it's, “You look like your parents must have done a really great job!” and “You really look like you've got it all together!” Kind-of that ‘good adoptee’ modeling and that reinforcement. Or “Aren't you glad that you're not an orphan? Because can you imagine what your life would've been like?” And so it's these automatic assumptions that sometimes can be microaggressive, but if it's a millionth time, it can be full-on aggressive.
Then, that paradox between, ‘I don't want to be the angry adoptee–’ that pejorative, which is really gaslighting, that's really silencing. Whenever I hear an adjective before an identity, I'm like, ‘Ooh, that's a big red flag.’ Because it is another form of silencing, othering for the benefit of those in spaces of power and privilege. And when we really deconstruct adoption, at the core of that, it really is a power and privilege dynamics, and oppression dynamics, and that is the things that are unspoken. We are not socialized to talk about it. We are not prepared to go there, even on a verbal level, much less to integrate that into the emotional parts of our psyche. If we've grown up in denial, like, “You are just like everybody else in the family!”, and now, especially as a transracial adoptee, I'm like, ‘No, I know full well there's a whole other part of my identity or story.’ I may not have the words for it, but I think particularly when these things happen on a developmental plane, when you've grown up with it, when it's become part of your own vernacular, internally, it is very hard to extricate externally. And that's what makes it– it can be quite exhausting. And so when adoptees, when many begin to regain the voice– and I don't even think it is like I'm regaining this new voice. It's like I've watched with awe and curiosity because it's something that's familiar to myself as well, it's the integration of what's always been there: that infant part, or the toddler part, or the multiple homes that I've been in, or the multiple placements. For someone to sit down and say, “Yeah, that happened to you, and there's some words for it,” I think that's a power within many adoptee spaces, is the affirmation, the validation, absent of full-on microaggressions.
And also being then aware of the intersectionality of microaggressions that can live and breathe within our own community, that different types of microaggressions, or the historical underpinnings of that, they are different. And I think that is just as we contextualize and get even deeper into our own sense of our voice and self –this could be anything from sexuality and the integration of racial difference, even within our own community; gender identity and expression– that there is a platform of understanding what microaggressions and othering is. I think that's a space to start with, and then going even deeper underneath that, where we can really look at what is inclusivity and ‘giving’ voice.
And I think that's hard. I've watched it, or at least experienced it, within portions of our own adopted community. Because, gosh, when my voice has been compartmentalized and dismissed in silence, when I finally get to these spaces and I can do that, there is this part for myself, I have to be really mindful of how that downloads, how that looks, how that may feel for somebody else, whether they're just beginning their journey or whether they've been doing advocacy, activism and different types of work for a long time. I don't think we're ever really there. I think we can just continue to build on each experience.
Haley Radke: So having this lens now that we're like, okay, I think we could recognize when someone says something to us, and it's a microaggression, when you come to a point of strength and you think, ‘You know what? I think I'm gonna push back on this a little bit,’ how would you respond to someone –or would you?– to correct them?
You were listing off some of the examples, and one thing I hear from so many adoptees, especially if they maybe are telling their reunion story, for example, the first question they'll get is something like, “Oh, well, what do your real parents think about that?” What would be a response that you could give to something like that?
Melanie Chung-Sherman: I think it is so individualized and one of the things that I've found, like in terms of our lexicon, almost this space, like, I've never really interacted with other groups of identified people where we have to validate family members before we can validate our experience. Does that make sense? Like, “I had a really great– I love my parents! I love this!” I've never been to other professional conferences where I've had to share out– or expect that maybe the keynote or other speakers who hold different identities, that they open with, “I had a really great childhood!”
Haley Radke: Right! So, I love that you're pointing that out because one thing that we saw last year was the Red Table Talk when Angela Tucker was on, and I mean, let's not go down too far down that rabbit trail, but just the fact that, “Oh, and her parents are here!” Like, what other conversation would they have with someone where they're like, “Oh, let's talk about this topic, and let's see what your mom and dad have to say about it!”, right?
Melanie Chung-Sherman: Right, right. In psychotherapy, I’ve not gone to a conference where we're talking about neurobiology and attachment indices, and the speaker or the researcher is now referencing their parents in particular, or that the expectation is that they do, in order to legitimize their own body of knowledge and research and experience. And so I hold that when we get those questions, I think it's okay to pause. I think it's okay then, even in this space of just being curious, many times I'll just ask: “I'm curious what you mean underneath the question?” and I'll just wait. Because I think then there is this onus, in terms of our own sense of our own dignity, our own energy, and our own space of integrity as adopted people to be able to hold– I get to hold the floor. I think being able to take that pause and step back and go, ‘Huh, what am I feeling here?’ For myself, I always consider that, and then actually turning the question, in terms of emotional labor. I mean, it's laborious to continue to do advocacy work where we are constantly sharing out, literally, parts of something so private, so personal, without, really, the respect response, the bidirectional response, just in terms of being able to be seen by other individuals. I think it's okay for us, or at least for myself, to take that pause, ‘Now, I'm wondering what they're actually asking.’ Even though I also know, underneath, this is the millionth time this has happened. We get asked these questions. It also then, it's not a dereliction of our own sense of our voice, but I do think that it places the onus on the asker.
We are constantly –adoptee; askee; panelist; all these different things– we’re kind-of put up on this stage or these platforms, to not only share out, but then also conversely share so much detailed information, that f the asker hasn't even done their work to metabolize it, I kind of weigh the question itself: ‘Do I even wanna engage in this?’ Because how much do we have the responsibility to constantly teach and train? Social media, particularly for those who've had more marginalized platforms or voices –not as victim spaces, but really as we weren't getting published– we can look historically at the research and the literature for decades, who held the narrative. And being able to, in those spaces, for adoptees as well, to go back and look at where we've come from, what's out there. And as much as I have a responsibility, if I accept a position where I'm speaking out, or speaking into a subject that's related to adoption, I've done my work. And I fully recognize that not everybody is going to be on the same page or in that space, but I do ask if I'm asked to do, let's say, a training or a keynote on transracial adoptions specifically, I've really now embedded into my ask-back, “What is your organization doing to support and actually to elevate the voices of adoptees, elevate the voices of people of color, elevate the voices of our LGBTQ community? And in what ways after I leave here will you do that? And in what ways before I come are you going to prepare for that?” So it's really not a bookend. You know, that adoption by the voices of adoptees isn't like, “Oh, we'll just do this…” It’s almost– it's patronizing. If you really want my voice, then please honor when I'm giving you resources. Use these resources because I know I'm able to do this work because of great sacrifices made by other adoptees who have really had to go through tremendous challenges just to even hold space, and I always want to honor that.
And so even before answering some questions, sometimes I may ask, “I'm curious–” I'll ask an audience, “What works have you digested? What works are you interested in?” Because I'm not speaking for all adopted people. That's a dangerous platform to be in. I can speak from a lived experience and through collectively, professionally, what themes are coming up within the work that's being done. But, “What else have you done?” as well. And I think then making a decision. ‘Do I want to teach here? Do I have the bandwidth?’ And I think for adoptees we need to learn how to take really good care of ourselves, value that space.
Haley Radke: I appreciate that challenge, truthfully, because I think, yeah, I'm kind of hoping for, like, the magic answer you can give when someone gives you one more paper cut.
But I love that idea of thinking about, ‘Okay. What is this really gonna serve in the long run? If I don't say something, or if I do…’ and really our self-care is really paramount.
Melanie Chung-Sherman: I think the self-compassion piece –I appreciate Dr. Kristen Neffs work on self-compassion– is paramount in a lot of the work I do, in terms of integrating and speaking into experiences, particularly when I'm working with clients who identify as adoptees.
We can really move into spaces quite quickly in terms of over-functionality, perfectionism. And it really is coming from genuine, visceral spaces and experiences that we've had. And so particularly when we move into the realms of advocacy and activism related to any kind of platform in adoption, the personal is political. The political is personal. The policies, initiatives… and then coupled with microaggressions, because those who hold space in terms of power and privilege– the dynamics have already been there for generations, they've been there for decades. And so holding self-compassion of, ‘When do I choose to bend the walls today? And when do I choose to take–’ it's not taking necessarily a step back, but a breath in. To be like, ‘You know what, I have done what I need to do in terms of the work.’ And if I'm doing that work, then part of that's going to entail really having a good therapist –I'm all about that, especially as a mental health professional– but then, even for myself, to be able to come back to someone with objectivity to really help center and actually just kind-of deconstruct and get in there and really talk through ‘What is my motivation for being here? What still fills me up? What helps keep me going? And what are the things right now, if I were to write these down and I were to name them out, the things that are exhausting me, the things that have been harmful?’
Because when we work in spaces where oppression and power dynamics are significant, I worry about individuals who say, “I'm not tired. I can do this all day long. None of it bothers me.’ Even that self-defense, what is that girding up in the spaces that are the most vulnerable? In the spaces that for many, at least for myself, it's hard to be vulnerable. Because vulnerability can also lead to abandonment ,and vulnerability is scary, and it's an unknown quantity. I, myself, I'm great at, like, I want control, I want predictability. I need to know what's here. Like, even before we came on, I knew that I had to have water, and coffee, or some kind of liquid. So all my close friends and colleagues know that it's a safety mechanism for myself, but it's also a compassion space of, like, ‘I know what I need,’ to take care of myself before I do.
But as we're talking about self-compassion, I think it's really important for adoptees in particular to really know what their limitation is. And I think that's hard when you're really beginning to put your voice out there and people are listening and you're getting feedback. It can be really addictive, it can be intoxicating. It can also be quite energy-draining. You know, Brené Brown talks about the “vulnerability hangover”, and I know whenever I speak specifically in spaces for adoption, I'm gonna need a good 24 hours of, like, a ‘social meeds’ cleanse, and a cleanse, like, in general, and really being with, ‘Who are the people that love me and support me? What are the things that bring me beauty and comfort?’ and when I have the energy and the time and space, then you know, ‘At what point do I wanna engage, and then at what point am I going to kind-of hold back a little bit?’
Haley Radke: Thank you so much for sharing that. I want to pause you because I think we are gonna talk more about this in our next episode. Thank you so much, Melanie. I really appreciate your thoughts on that and I think there's a lot of learning for us to do here. So I'm going to challenge people to take a few minutes and really think about what Melanie shared with us. In that, where can we connect with you online?
Melanie Chung-Sherman: So my website is mcscounsel.com, and you can also connect with me on Instagram @mcscounsel. And you can also connect through my professional Facebook page, you can just type in “Melanie Chung-Sherman, LCSW, PLLC,” and that will pull up the professional Facebook page.
Haley Radke: Wonderful. Thank you so much.
Wow. Did that give you enough to ponder for, I mean, days and days and days? I think this is an episode that bears re-listening to, and I truly think there's so many pieces of the real, deep story of adoption that takes layers and layers of understanding. And Melanie hit on so many high points, so many. So I really think if you give this episode a re-listen, you're going to hear something different, probably the next, I don't know, 10 times you hear it. And this is a great place where we can have conversations like this is over in the Adoptees On Patreon group. I have monthly supporters of the show, if you want to join them, Adoptees on.com/partner, and we have several levels of benefits. One is a weekly podcast that's called Adoptees Off-Script. One is an adoptees-only Facebook group, and we have a lot of really good conversations in there. So those are some of the benefits to supporting the show, and plus then the show gets to continue and live in this world and help other adoptees.
So thanks for considering that. I really appreciate it. Adopteeson.com/partner if you want to join us, and if you want to say with your money that Adoptees On is important and you want it to keep existing with that.
Ooh, I'm so excited. Melanie's going to be back next week, so make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss our conversation next week.
Thanks so much for listening, let's talk again next Friday.
