34 [Healing Series] Identity
/Transcript
Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/34
Haley Radke: You are listening to adoptees on the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm your host, Haley Radke, and this is a special episode in our Healing Series where I interview therapists who are also adoptees themselves so they know from personal experience what it feels like to be an adoptee. Let's listen in.
Lesli Johnson is a fellow adoptee and licensed therapist who works to help other adoptees connect the dots of their story and live authentically. Welcome, Lesli.
Lesli Johnson: Thanks, Haley. It's great to be back.
Haley Radke: I absolutely love our chats and I think they're so valuable for my audience. And I have a question actually from a listener, so why don't I read that for you.
Lesli Johnson: Okay, great.
Haley Radke: “Lesli said it was important to know your narrative as a way to heal trauma. I don't know mine. I don't know really anything about how I came into the world. I don't even know who my father is. Half of my ancestry is a big black hole, and society tells me to be grateful for that. How do we move forward without knowing our first chapter? How do I find my identity?”
Lesli Johnson: That's a great question and certainly one that I witness working with my clients regularly. There's a huge number of adopted people that don't know big chunks of their narrative. And I guess, you know, I think part of knowing who you are is knowing where you came from.
And for adoptees, whether they were adopted, transracially or domestically, there's oftentimes big pieces or even small pieces that they don't know and have to go on a quest and try to find these missing pieces. And sometimes they can't. I know for me I work with some teenagers, many teenagers and also adults who were adopted transracially, who may never know their actual story.
And so that's a really tricky question to answer. I think part of it is doing the best to fill in those holes. Who can help? Talking to other adoptees that maybe share similar experiences. Asking adoptive parents to give and help, you know, fill in those gaps to the best of their knowledge. I know some people that I've worked with have contacted the orphanages they were at in search for those pieces.
And sometimes it is reconciling that all the pieces aren't going to be gathered. So then what do you do with that? You know, you grieve that loss and then work with what you have, because I think we're a sum of all of our parts. And sadly, it's sometimes working with what you do know and have.
Haley Radke: Well, when I approached you about talking about this topic, you know, I extended, you know, what is identity formation?
What is that?
Lesli Johnson: Right. Well, I think it's how do we know about ourselves? How do we know who we are? And part of that is where we are, our environment, the people around us. And then part of that is also where we came from.
And I think that a lot of times it's been my experience that generally the teenage years are the times when people are looking to see who they are and, you know, all teens, adopted and not, are trying to find out who they are, what they want to do, where they want to, who they want to be.
And for non-adoptees, you have something to sort of model yourself. You can see yourself mirrored in your parents, you know, in your parents' faces. Maybe you have a long genealogical story of who your relatives were, who your genetic, biological ties were.
But for the adopted person, oftentimes they don't have those pieces. So it's a time when adoptive parents can really help. They can share the information that they know that they might have not felt comfortable sharing up until that time.
I think support groups are a great place to talk about the issues of identity and “who am I?”, I mean, I know in my teen group that's a big thing we talk about is who am I? I think the support and education is a really big piece if there's not the actual information. And if there is the actual information, it's a time for parents to start really sharing it and providing an open environment, an open stage for their child's questions.
Haley Radke: So how do you make up for that loss of genealogical history?
Lesli Johnson: There's no easy answer, you know, I think most adoptees who don't know their history spend a lot of time, I've referred to it before with you and I know you're familiar with Betty Jean Lifton's “Ghost Kingdom,” in that fantasy world of, you know, they must be this or what if I wasn't adopted?
What would my life look like? Do I resemble my first mother? Do I have habits of my biological father? You know, so that, I would imagine, gets exacerbated when you really don't have an option of finding out the truth in some of those situations.
Haley Radke: So are there any things that you would recommend?
So if we've got this void, what else can we fill it with if we're not going to get answers and we don't want to spend our whole life in the Ghost Kingdom? What can we fill that void with?
Lesli Johnson: Well, I think support, education. I think what you're doing with the Adoptees On podcast is providing such a wonderful, helpful place for education and support.
Support groups where people that have similar experiences, maybe not identical, but similar where a person can get that loss validated. I think situations like that can be really, really helpful. Finding a community of some sort that understands what your experience is.
Haley Radke: Identity formation really takes off in the teen years. Is that right?
Lesli Johnson: Yes.
Haley Radke: So what can we do during that time, and even then in adulthood when we're looking back and we might have been missing some of those pieces. What are some things that are supposed to be happening during that time?
Lesli Johnson: Well, I think you're correct. I think adolescence is the time when all people are trying to figure out who they are and where they came from. And for the adopted person, that's more difficult if they don't know. So this is really a time, and I work with adoptive parents coaching on how to talk about their child's history and how to help them navigate some of these questions and help their child start to connect the dots of their story so they have that coherent narrative.
This is a time for parents to really get their anxieties in check. Because I know a lot of parents have, you know, if part of their child's adoption story has some negative pieces, they're worried about sharing that with their child. Is my child gonna go on to be like their biological father? Or, you know, resemble their first mother's bad habits?
Or, on the flip side of that, is my child going to, you know, if I share information, is my child going to want to search? And then what's going to happen? And so really helping empower adoptive parents to handle these situations and know that the truth is their friend and the truth is also their child's friend.
Haley Radke: Yeah, I think that's so true because a lot of us just having that question mark is so paralyzing, and I remember, like, you're too afraid to ask your adoptive parents anything.
Lesli Johnson: Absolutely. There's that sense of loyalty even with parents who are saying, you know, I'm here for you. I want to answer your questions. I have this information, I have these pictures.
You know, I still see that it's almost like we're coated with this idea that we have to be loyal to our adoptive families. And that somehow wondering about our biology is a disloyalty, and it's not.
It's not. Everyone deserves to know where they came from. And the circumstances of their birth, the circumstances of their adoption. Everyone.
Haley Radke: All right. So if you're an adult already and you've passed those teen years and you've maybe missed some of those steps in forming your identity. Or you filled it in a maladaptive way, I suppose, what can we do to fill in the gaps or address things?
Or even, how would we know if we're missing something?
Lesli Johnson: Well, I think that's a good question. How would we know if we were missing something? I think you don't know what you don't know, but if your experiences land you in therapy or you pick up a book on adoption and things start to click.
It's never too late, I don't believe it's ever too late. I mean, that's kind of why I'm so passionate about the work that I do. I don't think it's ever too late. You know, I recently have had people in their sixties and seventies come in who want to put this stuff together.
So you start to re-parent yourself. If you didn't get it, then okay, how can you talk to yourself in the way you wish? And I'm making this sound like it's super easy and it's not, but it's beautiful and it's reparative, you know, how can you address those things you didn't get?
And maybe it's searching when you're older. Maybe it's having a conversation as an adult with your adoptive parents in an adult way, you know? Did you ever know anything? Do you know anything? Why didn't you tell me what you know?
I think there is a lot you can do if you discover that you didn't get what you needed or wanted when you were younger.
Haley Radke: Whenever I introduce you, I always introduce you and you say, helping adoptees connect the dots of their story. And what does that mean to you, Lesli? What does it mean for someone to have all their dots connected?
Lesli Johnson: So what it doesn't necessarily mean is having all the information.
I just believe in general that good mental health is being able to connect the dots of your story. That meaning the good stuff that's happened, the bad stuff, the joys, the sorrows, the fears, the grief, the loss, and being able to tell your story in a coherent way which is inclusive of everything.
So a person who was adopted is incorporating perhaps the grief and the loss, perhaps the reunion, perhaps all the other things that have happened, and they're able to talk about it in a way that's coherent and integrated. So I think when I say connect the dots of your story, I mean connecting the pieces of your life in an integrated way and being able to talk about it. There may be a part that always feels like there's something missing.
And that's not to say you can't have a good life noting that, you know, I think it just depends on the person.
Haley Radke: Well, I really appreciate you saying that, you know, because we talk so much about healing and we're trying to connect the dots and stuff, but just acknowledging maybe there is just gonna be a void and that can be okay, too.
Lesli Johnson: Yeah, I think each person's story is unique and each person's experience is unique. And that's not to say we can't get comfort from others who've had similar experiences and validation. But how people handle their own unique stories is always different.
And I would say I think it's okay to hold a space for that grief and loss if it's still there. You know, if it's still there, it's still there. And, while it's there, what can you acknowledge in your present life to continue to be in the present and live a full life in the present while there's still that grief and loss of the past.
It's like a dual awareness. When our past experiences are hijacking our ability to live in the present for the most part, then we know we need to get support, whether that's therapy or a support group, or call a friend. I mean, I think that's a good rule of thumb.
Haley Radke: Thank you. Is there anything else that you want to touch on?
Lesli Johnson: Yeah, I would, I was just thinking about what you asked earlier about what adults can do if they realize they didn't get what they needed or in terms of this identity formation. And there's a couple books that I really like that I recommend for both the adoptive parents that I work with to learn more about the teen voice, especially in the identity formation years. And I also think they'd be great for adults to read. There's something curative about reading books that maybe are focused more for teens and you can get a lot out of that even if you're not a teen.
So one of them is Dear Wonderful You and it's letters to adopted and foster youth from adoptees. Have you read this one?
Haley Radke: No, I haven't.
Lesli Johnson: It's really good. Dear Wonderful You, Letters to Adopted & Foster Youth. It's edited by Diane René Christian, and it's good. It's just a bunch of letters from adult adoptees and foster youth to teen adoptees.
And then the second one is Pieces of Me: Who Do I Want To Be? Voices For And By Adopted Teens. And again, it's just another kind of compilation of writings and essays and poems by adopted teenagers, and that's edited by Robert Ballard. They're both really good. And then I think a really good book for adoptive parents, especially during the teen years, is Beneath the Mask by Debbie Riley of CASE, which is the Center for Adoption Support and Education.
Haley Radke: Great. Thank you so much.
Lesli Johnson: And I would also throw out that I'm also available for coaching and consultation when people get in sticky spots.
Haley Radke: Yeah. And where can we contact you online, Lesli?
Lesli Johnson: You can contact me. My website is yourmindfulbrain.com. Twitter at Lesli A Johnson.
My other information is just on my website, phone number and everything.
Haley Radke: Great. Thank you so much for your time.
Lesli Johnson: You're welcome. Thank you.
Haley Radke: You can find all of our other Healing episodes at adopteeson.com/healing. Today I have a big ask for you. I have been podcasting for one year and I have 22 amazing people that have decided to stand with me and support my work on Patreon. That is a website that takes monthly pledges to help sustain my work in producing episodes just like this for you.
If you would like to stand with me and my other 22 supporters, visit adopteeson.com/partner and you can find out all the details. I am hoping that I could get to 30 supporters and that would make a huge difference in the way I'm able to bring you these episodes. So, thank you so much for celebrating with me.
Over 30 episodes, one full year of podcasting and I look forward to sharing so much more time with you in your earbuds, in your car speakers, wherever you listen to me. Thanks for listening. Let's talk again next Friday.
Oh, and don't worry, I did not forget about the giveaway. As an anniversary gift to you, the listener, I have been giving away copies of You Don't Look Adopted by Anne Heffron, and I've given away two already that I have paid for with my own cash money because I think it is so amazing and I'm gonna be giving away three more copies on social media this weekend.
And so follow me on Facebook, search Adoptees On podcast, and then on Twitter and Instagram I'm @adopteeson. So watch for these on July 1, which is the actual birthday of the show.
