89 [Healing Series] Somatic Therapy with Jennifer Griesbach, LCSW
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Full show notes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/89
Episode Transcription by Fayelle Ewuakye. Find her on Twitter at @FayelleEwuakye
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You’re listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I’m your host Haley Radke, and this is a special episode in our Healing Series, where I interview therapists who are also adoptees themselves, so they know from personal experience, what it feels like to be an adoptee. Today we are talking all about somatic therapy. Let’s listen in.
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Haley – I’m so pleased to welcome to Adoptees On, Jennifer Griesbach, welcome Jennifer!
Jennifer - Hi Haley, thank you.
Haley - Jennifer is a New York based therapist, who is also an adoptee of course. She uses the mind-body connection as an avenue to help adoptees heal from adoption trauma. Okay, what is mind-body connection? You gotta break that down for us right away.
Jennifer - When we’re talking about the mind-body connection, I think we’re really talking about that the body really deserves a place at the table in therapy. That you know, our experience is actually a whole lived experience and our bodily experiences are such a large part of that. We tend, sometimes we can prioritize this thinking part of our brains and our experience. So when, the mind-body connection is one of the contemporary ways to talk about this. But it’s really talking about our whole experiences as a lived whole. And how the body is such a big part of that.
Haley - Thank you for telling us about that. Jennifer, this is your first time on Adoptees On. Can you tell us a little bit of your story?
Jennifer - Sure. So I was born in 1968 in Toronto and I was adopted in a closed adoption really soon after my birth. So I was adopted at 11 days old. And I was the first child in my adoptive family. I have a brother who is 3 years younger. He was adopted 3 years later. So that was always was a part of my history growing up. And then I am in, sort of in partial reunion at this point. So I’ve actually been in reunion with my birth mother for 17 years. And I’ve had all of the ups and downs and interesting changes in reunion that I'm, really one of things I am interested in as an adoptee and working with adoptees is, how adoption hits us in different ways over the life cycle. And that’s been the case for myself. And then my interests, my difficulties around it have come up in different ways at different points of my adult life. I think there’s obstacles in the journey of adult adoptees and I’m so glad that we’re hearing more about this and that it’s not just about the adopted child anymore.
Haley - Yes.
Jennifer - Yeah. I do feel very fortunate to have, you know, had a long stretch of time to be in reunion and to sort of work on some of the different things that have come up around that.
Haley - Thank you. Thanks for sharing a bit of your story with us. So today we are gonna be talking about somatic therapy. So I’ve heard the word somatic, am I saying that right?
Jennifer - You’re saying it perfectly, yep.
Haley - Okay. So I’ve heard that word more recently, the last few years. But I don't really know what means. So can you tell us what that means? And in the context of somatic psychotherapy or somatic therapy.
Jennifer - Soma actually comes from, the root of soma I believe means the body. But somatic therapy is a kind of way of dealing with the experience, or the lived body in its wholeness. And soma moves through time. So it’s not a static sense of this is the body, like the body as in now. But the body as a process and a kind of a becoming. So how we sink into our physical process and how that subtly changes as moves as we’re in relation with someone. Or in relation with ourselves.
Haley - Okay, that’s really interesting. I didn't realize that there’s that time aspect to it. So a lot of times, we’ve talked about how the body stores our trauma. And so I imagine that’s where this is kind of going, using the body to heal as well.
Jennifer - Absolutely. The first thing is to really start to notice at a very granular level, how the, oh my god, this is so hard to explain.
Haley - Well okay, so we have, we’ve recommended before The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk. Is somatic therapy something that addresses things he teaches in that book?
Jennifer – Absolutely. In fact that was going to be recommended resource too. I think that book really talks so clearly about the connection between the body and trauma. And especially how people who’ve had early trauma, trauma that happened in the nonverbal period, so really any time from birth through the age of 3. Although certainly trauma that happens is registered in the bodies throughout our entire lives. That book talks so beautifully about how the body stores these difficulties of trauma and how the body reacts to it. So one thing that I’m always interested when someone wants to begin therapy and has some of these issues is, how their trauma actually is held in and how their body reacts to that trauma. So are they tensing or releasing, is there a way that they move away from the trauma in their body?
Haley - Okay so somebody comes to see you, in your office, and they’re an adoptee. But what are they gonna experience differently coming to see you as a somatic therapist versus someone who’s doing talk therapy?
Jennifer - One of the main things that they’re gonna notice when they start therapy with me is that we will be speaking about but also taking some time to really feel the repercussions in their body of what they’re talking about. So when someone comes in and maybe they have a sense that what’s going on in their life has to do with their adoption and we are talking a little bit about their history, I’ll be asking them, as you tell me that, how do you actually feel that in your body? Or you’re saying that you’re feeling a little bit sad right now. Can we really get in and see what that sadness feels like in your body? So that they deepen their sense of their lived experience of that feeling.
Haley - And what kind of things would people tell you? Like would they say a specific, I don't know, a specific body part? Or I don't know, what would be an example?
Jennifer - That’s a great question. So one thing that might happen is, that we may try to locate where they feel their sadness in their body. So you know, for some people they feel a lot of emotions, they feel emotions in particular places. Other people will find that over and over again, sadness is in their throat, or sadness is in their heart or they have some fluttering in their stomach. So we’re starting to kind of, map out where their feelings live in their bodies.
Haley – Okay so you pinpoint that feeling in the body. And what does that do? Is that just like, you’re building your connection again to your brain? Or I don't know, can you like, this is probably hard to talk about because it’s so, it’s kind of out there, right? Like there’s nothing that you can say, oh yeah, then we drew a line from this to this part of your brain. It’s not like that.
Jennifer - Exactly. And I would say that you kind of hit the nail on the head. That that is really fundamental to an approach. The body is kind of like a, we live with it all the time, it’s giving us information all the time. But it’s not got one to one connections where okay, you feel your sadness and it is in this place and it always feels like this. So we’re looking at what this particular sadness or this particular movement that happens, or this relationship that’s happening between us. So I mean, I can give an example. I’ve listened to your podcast and I’ve heard your voice many times but here we are talking. And I hear your laugh and as you laugh I feel into my body, and I can feel oh a little bit of release, a little bit of dropping through my core. And I find my seat just a little bit more. And then as I do that, I feel a little energy coming up through the back of my spine. So all of those subtle movements, which aren’t exactly, they’ll sort of solidify even into emotions. But they go into this wholeness that’s happening between us of, hm, my excitement of talking with you about this, this kind of therapy that I do, and my sort of interest in us getting a little bit more deep into a way that I can explain it. So that’s the kind of level that I, that I am interested in with my clients and interested in opening up for them.
Haley – And so as your client becomes aware of that feeling in their body, what happens next for them? Like, what happens when you are able to feel the sadness in your gut or feel the anger or burning somewhere?
Jennifer - That is the question. And what is it that happens next? So the answer to that is so individual, but what happens is that we really explore that. So you might find that that let’s see, it’s an anger. That that anger really develops and becomes full and has it’s full expression and peaks and then passes away. And then that’s like an anger that you really felt. Or you might find that it gets either stuck at a certain point where you get bored with it or you move away. So we’re looking at just exactly how you, in that moment, are experiencing and moving with anger and what you do with it. And I guess, there’s a way that with the body we can get into such detail about how you are feeling your feelings and feeling them, with whatever, for in this case, it’s the therapist who’s in the room. But of course everything that’s happening in the room is also probably happening in your life. So I’m looking at the subtle ways in which we move between each other, the ways that something that too might encourage, say, you as my client to shut down to a certain point. Or to express that feeling and then that becomes information for you, in terms that might then inform you know, as something that’s happening between you and your spouse, or something that’s happening between you and your child. Or a particular feeling that you’re having in the world that you’re, that you feel is stuck in some way. So we’re really looking at, on this very basic level. How do your feelings and your, how does your lived body sort of move through something that’s coming up and how does that come to fruition?
Haley - So when you’re helping an adoptee go through this process, what would be some of the things that you would maybe ask them about, or is there anything that you’re like, oh you’re adopted, ok, we should definitely talk about such and such, I don't know, do you have any examples of that?
Jennifer – Well there are certain themes of course that do seem to come up over and over again, but really I’m trying to start with whatever is bringing you into therapy. And usually people who come into therapy with me, if they’re coming as adoptees, they usually know that I’m interested in working with adoptees, so they often already have some kind of a sense that adoption might be a piece of the issue. The thing is that I think, I think each of us processes our whole adoption journey, and I really mean that, from day one, birth, and even from maybe before birth. From in the womb. We are so unique and in terms of looking at some of this early stuff, I’m looking for, whatever is getting in the person’s way. So what that was for me, might be very different for you, might be very different from the next person who comes into my office. So I’m trying to listen to the whole story and then find the places that seem resonant to whatever the issues are that’s bringing a person in today.
Haley - So why is somatic therapy so helpful, do you think, for adoptees in particular?
Jennifer - One reason is that for adoptees, there is often, but not always, ‘cause trauma is kinda a mysterious thing and trauma really, you know, each of us will have different pieces of a story. We can have similar stories, but what is traumatic for each of us is going to be different. But for so many adoptees, there is this very early loss. And somatic therapy goes right to the heart of our earliest way of knowing the world. So when we came into this world, we came in with a body. And it could be said that movement, possibly if we add sound, but that movement is our first language. And in fact with our body and our body connection to our parents, whether those were our birth or first parents, or adoptive parents, or foster parents to whoever was parenting us, it was through our bodies that we had our first interactions with our caregivers and with the world. And there's a way that babies kind of wonder the world. We do that through our bodies. So when you invite the body even more fully into therapy, you go to a somatic therapist or you bring it body’s experience into therapy, you’re automatically calling on that very early experience. And that very early way of being in relation with the world. And so I think that’s one reason why it’s really powerful for adoptees. Also, and this, you find this in the trauma literature, I think people have spoken about this on your podcast too before. Traumas that happened before we were verbal, so we start to get language maybe at around age 1 but we’re really not speaking in full sentences until we were verbal a little while after that. But things that happened to us before we had words, often can't be processed in words. So there’s something about bringing a body forward and a lot of the modalities that work with trauma do this really well. You know, for instance, EMDR pays attention to the body, there’s a lot of different somatic therapies that pay attention to the body and trauma. But bringing the body forward in experiences are really great way of gaining better access, clearer access to some of those early feelings and things that are hard to put into words.
Haley – And as you practice, like as your clients come in and they're practicing, right? Connecting to what does my body actually feel, how does bringing that skill into your life, I mean how does that benefit you?
Jennifer – Oh, you know, one of the things that therapy really can do for you is give you more awareness of yourself. And to have that deeper physical awareness of yourself, I just, you know, I’ve experienced that in my own life and I see that in my clients, it brings so much more awareness. So we’re all walking around with bodies and we can all feel them more and more fully. But when we’ve had early trauma, we’ve probably created a number of ways to move away from or to shield ourselves from some of these really difficult feelings. And those ways of shielding ourselves might actually be habits from very early on that we might not fully need anymore. So we may not be living in the same situation that was so traumatic when we were born. But we may still have some of those, some little ways that we have adapted to protect ourselves. And the truth of it, those things that we have learned to do were so important and may still be so important. So therapy is not about getting rid of them, but about really feeling what they’re doing for your now. And seeing if they are, if they’re really still congruent with who you are now. So when we talk about some of the things that bring people into therapy, maybe difficulties in a relationship, maybe a sense of confusion of not knowing who you are. Maybe some issues around adoption as it hits different points in the life cycle. But some of the feelings and some of the difficulties may actually be sitting on some of this early preverbal material. And how we are reacting in our bodies to these things today, can actually link back to some of the early things. So for instance, like I’m thinking about someone who had an early trauma and their response to it at that time is to kind of, to go away. To go to sleep. To move away into protecting themselves through not feeling. And how that might still be a strategy that they use today. And they might come home and use that in their marriage and find that that is now not working so clearly. So by being able to work with the body, you can see how, what you’re doing now in your body has a resonance that might lead back to some understanding. It’s like, it’s these things that are kind of incomprehensible to us that we do now. Where a somatic approach can really help us to slowly get more understanding of what our own process is. And we may find that they're not so strange when we put them in the context of what we know or what we imagine has happened to us.
Haley – Going back to what you can expect if you’re coming to see a therapist who use. this modality, is this like a 50/50 blend? Like 50% you’re doing, you know, talk therapy kind of stuff and then 50% it’s also paying attention to your body? Or like, what does it kind of look like I guess?
Jennifer - So Haley, I think that the reality is that each practitioner is gonna have such a variety of approaches. So there’s all kinds of specific therapies that will fall under the umbrella of somatic therapy or body oriented psychotherapy. And you know, those, there are a lot of, so some of the examples that I can think of, there’s dance therapy, and there’s movement therapy. There’s somatic experiencing which is a very experiential form of really paying attention to the movements of the body. Sensory motor, IFS that you talked about has a real body component. When your guest was on, Marta I think it was, was talking about IFS, she really talked about how she grounds and asks people to feel things in their bodies. EMDR, one of the four elements that we look at early on and one of the things that can be targeted in our body’s feelings. So there are a lot of different therapeutic modalities that bring the body forward as really a place to sit and to experience and to talk about and maybe even to experience nonverbally. So it’s kind of very dependent on the therapist and that’s a really good thing to ask them, is what do your sessions look like? So a dance or a movement therapist might have you up on your feet making movements and expressing through movement. And it might look like very active. Someone else it might be an EMDR practitioner, might really be paying attention to the body and asking about the body, but it might just look like you’re sitting there and you’re talking and you’re doing some EMDR. The way that I work is kind of a blend. My clients sometimes do get up on their feet. I have a variety of props around my office. It has a couch, it does not look like a yoga studio. But if you look carefully in the corners, there are yoga blocks and there are some balls, there are some stretchy bands and some blankets and we use them to experiment. You know, when someone is starting to feel maybe a little bit floaty or not grounded and perhaps they want to experience more grounding, we have different ways that we can put the blocks under their feet to feel a little bit more their ability to press into the floor, or have some support on their back. So you know, I offer things for people to experiment with as we’re working with some of this material and some of these themes that come up. Especially as they start to know more and more of what’s coming up for them. What would happen if they stood up and said to me, no one ever sees me, versus sitting down, what would happen if they had their feet on the blocks and could be more grounded with that? So I guess, all of that is to say that there is really a variety of how a session would look and it’s a good thing to be seeing someone when you’re interviewing therapists and you’re thinking about, is this an approach that’s right for me, is to get a sense of what they actually do. Is it more movement oriented, it is more paying attention to the body?
Haley - And I think, personality wise, that’s really important to know. When you were talking about the dance therapy and like, that you might be up and making movements I was like, I don't think that’s for me right now. Because, part of that would be for me, that would be really uncomfortable to have somebody watch me doing some expressive movement in some way.
Jennifer - So it's good that you know that about yourself. And the thing about somatic therapy, I was thinking about this. One of the things that’s interesting to me is that people who are drawn to it, is that some people really want to go deeply into their body and other people are drawn to somatic therapy ‘cause they have a sense that they’re not accessing their body. Maybe they have a longing to, but they have sometimes a feeling of confusion in the body or not cohering or just discomfort. And to know that this would just like with any therapeutic modality, you can go at exactly your own pace. So it’s interesting to see, you know, when people come into my office, they know that I do have a somatic approach, but some people, the work really looks like talk therapy and really the difference is that I am paying very close attention to my own body process. And noticing your body process, or my client’s body process. And I may not even say anything about it, but I’m taking it in. And that’s really informing also, another layer of not just what they’re saying, but also how their body is speaking. And how it’s speaking to me and received in my body. So there’s that level too and that’s, to me that’s a really interesting part of this work. And I think this happens, this happens in therapy of all kinds. But the, sort of, it’s another way to think about that, the tuning that happens between therapist and client. And the way in which what you do affects me and what I do affects you. And that mirrors in some way, that dyadic relationship between the parent and infant. Not that the therapy relationship is a parent infant relationship but that that connection, that can exist, and that for many of us, who were adopted at a young age, we wonder how much of that we had. That way of attuning with the body is again something that we as adoptees may long for. And that some therapy that pays attention to the body is in a good place to provide just like, I think it happens in all good therapy, is that back and forth.
Haley – I was just gonna ask you, so if you’re already going to see a therapist, but you’re listening to Jennifer and you’re thinking okay, I think I might be disconnected and this sounds kind of interesting. Can you go to your therapist, your existing therapist and say, hey, do you do any somatic stuff? Or, like how would you ask them that? And could you expect a lot of therapists to know a little bit about this?
Jennifer – I think that most therapists would be open to hearing more about what’s going on in your body, what your body processing with your feelings. And this would be a way to just deepen the work that you are already doing as to, as you're talking, is to notice more about what you’re experiencing in your body. I mean we could just, like an analogy would be, to think about walking down the street. That you can walk down the street and think the thoughts that you’re thinking, or you can walk down the street and feel your feet on the ground and feel yourself walking as you think. And so if you’re interested in doing this kind of work and you’re with someone who is not necessarily a somatic therapist, I think you can start for yourself to feel those feet a little more, metaphorically. Just feel yourself in the therapy room and I imagine that if you begin to talk about that, that that is going to become a part of the process. Just like you would with dreams or you know, some of the feelings that come up that all of this material is not necessarily logical words, is going to be part of the mix.
Haley – Well I can totally picture that, like I could be talking about something and I do this already. Talking about something and be like, oh yeah, see, now I feel sick to my stomach.
Jennifer - Yes. Even just, that’s a beautiful example, even just to say that in therapy, is, I imagine that will deepen your work and also give your therapist even more of an idea of how you’re actually experiencing what’s going on. You know and another way that you can just work on this, whether you’re in therapy or not is, is to feel yourself doing everyday things, just feel yourself as you walk down the street, as you stir the soup, as you open the car door. And as you talk, with your children, your parents, your friends, as you are in relation to people, to notice when you are drawn to words, or drawn away. Even just to notice, one thing that you can pay attention to is just how you’re feeling tension. So you know, we walk around every day. Some of us have chronic tension. But then we walk around kind of tensing and relaxing ourselves all the time. Even, I could feel that in myself as I’m talking a little bit of tension coming in right now sort of in the back of my jaw and then it releases as I move into what I’m going to say next. You can simply start to notice how you feel pressure and tension in your body and where you feel it and I’m moving my hands. Nobody can see me but you can notice is it sort of going across your body, like are you, squeezing in say, in your shoulders. Or are you stretching up or stretching down? Or is it back and forth? So there’s different dimensions of this. We need to notice that. Even in life and in therapy, when we’re talking about something and it gets difficult is how are you tensing and in what way and what’s the sort of feeling or the quality of that tension? There’s a whole body counterpoint that’s going on all the time to the talking that we are doing and that is such an integral part of the back and forth that we’re having. And it’s really, it’s another, I don't wanna say it’s another track, because it’s really part of a wholeness, but it’s another layer of what’s going on in therapy and in our lives. And to be in tune to that more and more is to have access more to that nonverbal side, that preverbal self. Which I think is so important to all of us.
Haley – Yeah, definitely I was just gonna ask you, I mean I know you’ve kind of stated it throughout, but just, maybe final thoughts on just the benefits of that for adoptees, especially over time? Over time, having more of an awareness of how your body and feelings are sort of intertwined. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Jennifer - So I think that, you know, as you say about knowing yourself, this sort of question of identity and who am I and who am I in this moment? And who am I in this world is such a big one for adoptees. You know, if we haven’t had the kind of mirroring or the kind of, whether it’s connection or just knowing sort of basic information about ourselves. In the absence of that, where there can be, people feel it in different ways, but a sense of confusion or emptiness, or of playing a part. So there’s something I think that’s really profound about tuning in to this basic, there is no denying that you are having physical feelings all the time. That you’re moving and sensing and feeling and perceiving and having emotions. And making meaning out of them. And that to feel that stream of moving, sensing, feeling, perceiving a little bit more fully, I think helps you orient yourself better and know more clearly who you are. It is a process it does take time, but to me that’s the great, the great benefit that can come for adoptees. And for others. And it’s not just adoptees.
Haley - Thank you for teaching us about somatic therapy. That was so good and so interesting. I’m totally interested in learning more about this. So how can we connect with you online?
Jennifer - The best way to connect with me at this point is through my website, which is jennifergriesbach.com. I have a small email list, I don't at this point have any way for you to just join my email list, but you can just send me a message or an email through my website. And that’s a great way to connect with me.
Haley - Wonderful, thank you so much. We learned a lot from you today, all about somatic therapy.
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Haley - So if you’re listening to this when it’s been released, we are smack in November where it’s National Adoption Awareness Month and I just wanna encourage you to do your best self-care this month. We are seeing a lot of messages about how happy and amazing adoption is, and whatever your views on adoption, I think we can agree that it’s more nuanced than that. So if you are interested in participating in the conversation, there’s lots of ways you can do that on Twitter, or Instagram, on Facebook, there’s a bunch of different hashtags going around. #NAAM2018 for National Adoption Awareness Month is one that you’ll see lots of adoptive parents using. And so it’s great to have adoptees sharing their thoughts on that hashtag as well. Another great way you can join in the conversation is, can you recommend Adoptees On? You know, there’s conversations happening and the adoptee voice is getting left out. Maybe you can post, hey, how about listening to this episode, it kind of speaks to the situation that you're talking about, and there’s a little bit more to it than that. So if you're up for sharing things about your experience, I encourage you to do that. And if it’s a little bit much, which I know it is for a lot of us, then listen, you don't have to be on social media for November. Just take the month off, take a break, get Instagram off your phone, take Facebook off. Take a break. It is okay to disengage for your own sanity. So either way, I respect your decision, I support you, I have been posting quite a bit because I wanna make sure the adoptee voice is out there, but some of the questions that I’m getting from prospective adoptive parents really challenging. So if you see a question like that on any of the Adoptees On feel free to chime in and tell them what you think. And thank you. Thank you so much to my very amazing and generous monthly partners of the show, I would not be able to do this show every single week without your support. So thank you. If you wanna stand with me and say adoptee voices are important and if you want to help this show spread around the world, go to adopteeson.com/partner and you can find out how to join up with me and almost 100 other supporters to share the message of Adoptees On and how adoptees connecting and can really bring each other healing in community. So thank you so much for your support and thanks for listening and let’s talk again next Friday.
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