140 Kevin Barhydt
/Transcript
Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/140
Haley Radke: [00:00:00] This show is listener supported. You can join us and help our show grow to support more adoptees by going to adopteeson.com/partner.
You are listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. This is episode 140, Kevin. I am your host, Haley Radke. I hope you're doing well under the pandemic circumstances we're all living in right now. Today's show was the last interview I recorded before we went into self-isolation in my province and in my household. So, if we mention hanging out in person with other adoptees, just take note. We will all be thrilled when that is a real possibility again. Today, Kevin Barhydt shares that it wasn't until unpacking the multiple traumas of his addictions and childhood sexual abuse that he uncovered adoption trauma that was there since his relinquishment. Kevin and [00:01:00] I talk about how community support has helped him thrive and grow. We do talk about some incredibly challenging things today, so if you've got little ones around, make sure you've got earbuds in. We wrap up with some recommended resources and, as always, links to everything we'll be talking about today are on the website, adopteeson.com. Let's listen in.
I'm so pleased to welcome to Adoptees On, Kevin Barhydt. Hi Kevin.
Kevin Barhydt: Hi, Haley.
Haley Radke: I told you this before we started, but my bio dad's name is Kevin. So whenever I see your name, I always think of my dad.
Kevin Barhydt: You can just call me dad throughout the interview. How's that?
Haley Radke: That's awkward.
Kevin Barhydt: I know. Do you call him dad? Do you call him Pops?
Haley Radke: You know what? That's so funny. We just did a Patreon episode about that, and I do, in theory, call him dad, but in practice we just call him Poppy 'cause that's what my kids call him. So that's been easier to default to, calling him [00:02:00] Poppy. I'm not sure why the parent names is kind of a tricky thing for some of us to navigate I'm sure. But anyway, I won't call you dad.
Kevin Barhydt: That's wonderful. No Poppy, no Poppy.
Haley Radke: Or Poppy, okay.
Kevin Barhydt: My grandchildren call me Papa. I've got three, but actually my children from my second marriage also call me Papa so I've got two t-shirts. I should send you a picture of it that say World's Best Papa. But I have two exact duplicate t-shirts, but not Poppy.
Haley Radke: Okay. I don't know where Poppy came from, but yeah, it's, that's our little tradition. Alright, Kevin, why don't we start out the way we always do and would you share your story with us?
Kevin Barhydt: I will, and I wanna just start by saying thank you for being as structured and I think as organized as you are, and I've listened to a lot of your episodes, and I think you're of course highly professional, but in having me here today, it's so comforting to me to have that structure. I really feel I guess I have a dual personality when it comes to time. So I have a [00:03:00] part of me that can lose myself in art or writing or conversation and just get completely forgetful about time and place. But another part of me can never be late. Another part of me wants to know when and where and why and how and you've done great at that. And I know it has a lot to do with my being adopted. It's that sense of abandonment, lack of worth that I've experienced. Times, dates, places, history, it's all really important to me. I think it's important to a lot of adoptees because for me, trying so hard to piece our lives together, partly from where we came from and part from the life I have now. Chronology, I guess would be the best word. It's almost an obsession. It's less like a puzzle and more like a mystery novel with a bunch of pages missing. So it's like that lack of order or rhyme and reason to my mystery drives me to want to understand my mystery and to wanna tell my story for me, and hopefully to be of help to others.
So I guess as an adoptee, for me, [00:04:00] I feel like everything was about waiting. Waiting for something to get better, waiting for something to, I don't wanna use the word “save me,” but get better. 'Cause I'm born, but I'm not gonna be able to stay with my mom, but just wait, wait. This nice foster mother's gonna care for me for a few months, and the foster mother does care for me, but she knows not to bond with me. But just wait a couple of months because this nice couple will adopt me and then I can become bonding. And I always have to stop here because I think that maybe if that's the only thing that happened, maybe if I was, and this is big air quotes, you can't really see on a podcast, but if I was “only adopted,” maybe my life would've been different. Maybe. Maybe if that was the only waiting that I had. But, when I'm about nine years old, I'm molested. And my mind tells me someone will help me, but instead, no one even knows that it happened and no one will help me. By the time I'm 11, my dad, my adoptive father, falls ill but [00:05:00] my mind tells me, don't worry, he'll get better, but he never fully recovers. At 11, I started drinking and at 12, I had my first OD. When I'm 13, I was arrested and when I'm 14, I am taken out of my adoptive home and I'm put back into the foster care system, then to another foster home, then a group home and a detention center. By the time I'm 15, I quit school and I live on the streets. And when I'm 15 I have some other experiences and one of them is that I'm drugged and raped by two men, and I know some of these are hard to hear, but this is a big part of me being honest. And by that time, to be honest, at 15, in my life, I'm done, I'm done with the waiting. I'm done with the trusting. I'm done with any hope for security and I'm off to the races and that, that's really a good way to put it. The starting gate is open and I'm running. When I'm 16, my first daughter [00:06:00] was born. My second is born when I'm 17. Again, this is chronology here, but I'm 18 when I joined the Navy, 19 when I get married. By the time I'm 20, my wife leaves me and I'm thrown out of the Navy and I end up in jail for seven felony charges. My life is really full of brokenness. But, and this is where I wanted to lead to. Even with all those traumas and all that waiting, I came here today. I'm here with you. I showed up today and I think there's hope. There's hope for me, and there's a lot of hope for all of us.
Haley Radke: Wow. That's quite a story. And we're only at age 20.
Kevin Barhydt: I know. Well, I even skipped over the next three years, which were really the worst. The next three years from 20 to 23 were the bottom of all bottoms. I think that there was more jail time, but there was a lot of street life and in this podcast, of course we talk about a lot of different areas of struggles and rather than me go in depth, [00:07:00] I guess, I just hit the high points. And I'll let you fill in the blanks. If you have any questions. I'm so willing and ready and able to answer them.
Haley Radke: I am curious about your adoption disruption in your early teens. You were just really troubled at that point. Was it by your adoptive parent's choice or no, for you to be removed?
Kevin Barhydt: I found out at some point in my adult life that there was more of a push and a pull between my two adoptive parents. And this was a little bit hard for me to digest and to grapple with when I did find out. And how I found out was a little stunning too. But, in short, my father, my adoptive father, was more on the side of really wanting to do everything he could to try to help, to try to take care of me, to keep me, to nurture me, to be the father that he always wanted to be, but unfortunately, he had been ill since I was 11, and [00:08:00] by the time I was 13, 14, 15, there was very little that he could even do physically, much less emotionally, mentally, or spiritually. What I did find out, sadly, that really did have an effect on me, although I believe I've done a lot of healing from it, is that my mother, my adoptive mother, was of the opposite sense. And her sense was that maybe we shouldn't have done this at all. And I'll use the language the way it was used with me is that maybe we weren't supposed to do this. Both my adoptive parents could not conceive and there was a whole lot of doubt and a whole lot of struggle in that. And then when things just continued to break, and I think their ability to really to step up, even for themselves, even for each other, and to be the strong people that they maybe always intended to be, really had an effect on them. And so I was relinquished at that point, and I wouldn't want to point a finger at one or the other. It probably had to be a mutual decision. And the interesting part of that story [00:09:00] is that I never knew that dimension of it. I never knew the difference between my adoptive father and my adoptive mother and how they actually viewed that time in their life and their ability to care for me. I never knew that until actually just about a year ago, and I'm in my mid to late fifties now, so it's been many years. But I think the real dimension that really threw me was that I always thought my adoptive mother was the strong one of the family because my dad had been so ill and I always thought she was the one that wanted to keep me and wanted to take care of me. And I always, and I use this term not lightly, I don't want to be too dramatic with it, but I always hated my father. I believed he was the weak one. My adoptive father couldn't take care of me. I guess I never believed that they didn't want to, but I believe that they couldn't, and I believe that they fell short, fell far short of what maybe my expectations would've been. That took a lot of healing.
Haley Radke: Thank you for sharing [00:10:00] that. I'm curious now then, because, again, before we started recording, you told me, “I'm in my adoptive mother's room,” and so you had this disrupted adoption, went into foster care, had a lot more trouble after that, and yet there's obviously still a relationship there since you are living in the same house.
Kevin Barhydt: I will say that there has been, I was 23 when, let's say, the tables started to turn and I will have to admit that there's a whole lot more to my story in, let's say, the recovery portion. So from 23 and on, there were three things that really happened over the years. Number one was the lifestyle that I was living, especially the drugs and the alcohol and the real street life that I was a part of, that turned around and that turned around through 12-step work, therapy, and a lot of soul searching and a lot of picking myself up and getting the help that I needed. Over the years, the second thing that really happened was I sought [00:11:00] help for the child sexual abuse and that was very, very difficult for me. Neither of my adoptive parents were perpetrators, but again, one of the really strong, that's the biggest, I think, thing that I started to regret when I realized that I had been molested and when I realized that I had been abused was that they weren't there for me for that. They weren't there for me through that, and they weren't there to protect me from that. So there was a whole lot of struggle through that. Interestingly enough, the last thing that I grappled with was the trauma of the separation. The last thing I dealt with was the trauma of the abandonment and the primal wound, as some of us say, of that actual tearing away and that sense of no worth, no value, and a very confused existence in place in life. So yes, at 23 I really turned the tables a bit. But it took a very long time, and now I will say, after 34 years of sobriety, I've really healed a [00:12:00] lot of wounds. My mother and father, my adoptive mother and father became more of a part of my life, probably in my late twenties and early thirties. And it was hard. I will not begin to tell you how hard it was. It was hard, but I believed it was worth it, and it was important to me, and I, as much as I had to do a lion’s share of the work, they were willing, too. They were willing to struggle through a great deal of their remorse, their pain, and their lack of even understanding how this all happened.
Haley Radke: Okay. So we glossed over a lot of stuff there. I appreciate you giving us the bullet points. I am curious how you came to figure out that adoption had impacted your life. You know, infant separation. 'Cause we see with a lot of adoptees this addiction. There's things that make our life really challenging. A lot of adoptees, I shouldn't say a lot, [00:13:00] but there are other adoptees like yourself who've experienced abuse in different forms. When did you come to the realization like, oh, there's the primal wound sort of issue as you called it, and a lot of us will name it that. When did that actually come into focus for you?
Kevin Barhydt: I will say that you're right, The Primal Wound was the book that I read and really in understanding that, I think I developed through my research and through my work with my therapist. But that wasn't until a few years ago. To be very honest with you, that was a question that I was always asked and as a child, I would just shake it off. I would just say, “No, that's not a problem. I don’t have, there's no issues there.” There were several places throughout my recovering years where that would come up. Maybe someone would ask me, “Did that ever have an effect on you?” And sometimes it would be the silliest question. There was a vice president at a company that I was working for in New York City, and we were walking through the streets of New York and in the middle of the street, he was listening to me discuss an issue with him, and he stopped [00:14:00] in the middle of the street and stared at me and said, “You're an only child, aren't you?” And I looked at him and I said, “Yes, why?” And he says, “That answers my question.” Because being an only child gave me a certain lack of skillset. And that actually spurred me on to think about yeah, I was an only child, but I was an adopted only child, and what does that mean? And so I started to really ask those questions, I think in my thirties.
But I will say that it wasn't until I was in my forties, I was working in New York City and I had just taken a job upstate New York at a new job. And the woman that I was working for at that point, her name is Roz Pier. And I love Roz and I wanted to mention her name. She had helped me put my resume together and things like that, and when she knew I got the job, she said, “Kevin, before you leave, we have to go out to lunch. I need to talk to you. We have something in common.” And I didn't know, I thought maybe she knew I was a recovering alcoholic and she was too or something. [00:15:00] She was a birth mom who had given up her twins. And that was, I think, the turning point. A lot of seeds had been planted before that, and a lot of wondering and pondering, but Roz and I talked for a good deal of time. She told me about her struggles and that she had found her children and they were not completely open or very little open to reuniting with her, but she told me that if I ever wanted to open the door, even a crack that she would be there for me and she would support me in that. And she did. And from there I started walking that slow, painful sometimes, process, but also very uplifting process of really starting to understand how being adopted and how that primal wound and how that abandonment and the unique, I think in some ways, circumstances of the multiple traumas and abandonment throughout my life had affected me. From [00:16:00] there, it took me a lot of time with Roz, who stayed with me throughout the whole process. But also I met other adoptees, a fellow named Michael. I won't divulge his last name here, but who was extraordinarily supportive. Other search angels were really helpful, Beth and Judy. And then of course, I one day really realized that this had broken me in so many ways in nearly every relationship. And I was able to go to my therapist a couple of years ago, about four years ago, I think, and I talked to her and I said, “I'm just waiting for everyone to leave me. I know that my wife loves me. I know my children love me. I know you're my therapist and I pay you. You're not going anywhere, but I know you're going to leave me. I know everything in my body and in my mind, every cell, and everything in my heart tells me. It's just a matter of time.” And that was the beginning, I think, of opening the door. And she suggested I read The Primal Wound, but we read other literature and I did the [00:17:00] research, but that's where the work really started.
Haley Radke: Wow, that is fascinating. So you had gone through 12-step recovery, therapy, I'm assuming, for when you were unpacking the childhood sexual abuse, and then all that time passed and then you're looking at the adoption stuff.
Kevin Barhydt: You're right, Haley. And it's interesting that you say that because that's the real thing, that it actually just dawned on me, I think even this past year or recently, that the order in which things happened: the adoption, the abandonment first, the child sexual abuse second, and the addiction and the alcoholism third. The reverse order is how I approached healing. It was just really, I think in some ways, because I don't know if I could have, I don't know if I, I will say here that the drugs and the alcohol and the lifestyle were maybe just the most obvious. They were the most in my face, but also they were the ones that I felt I [00:18:00] had the most hope of even putting a dent in that. At least stop drinking, stop using drugs. For a day. Do it for another day. Do it for another day. Reach out for help. But I will say here that, even though this isn't the topic of this podcast, the child sexual abuse wasn't something I was even aware of. I knew that something had happened when I was nine. I knew that something had happened when I was 15, and I guess the word would be denial. That's the easiest way. But I was a couple of years sober when I was in therapy and my therapist kept just talking to me about some of the relationship issues I was having, and she would say, “It sounds so much like you had some abuse,” and I looked at her and I said, “No,” and I started to rack my brains thinking, did my father abuse me? Did my uncle? I was trying to search it out and it wasn't until literally I was driving down the road and I passed by that house where I had been abused [00:19:00] when I was nine, and I was just driving past and I said, “Oh, there's that silo.” There was an old silo that we used to play in. I said, “Oh, there's the silo we used to play in.” And then I looked over to the left and said, “Yep, there's the house that I was molested in.” And my brain just said, what was that? And so the long story short is these things I think came in the time when I could handle them. When I was ready. And I wish that I could have handled it all when I was 23. I wish I could have. I wish most of it had never happened in some ways, but I have no regrets. I've been able to do a lot of healing.
Haley Radke: I appreciate you sharing that. I, how do I say this? There's so many things that a lot of us keep secret and it's too painful to bring out, and I appreciate you sharing that. It was at the time where you think your brain was finally like, okay, maybe we can unpack this next little bit, because I think often we don't give ourselves enough credit. I don't know if you think this too, Kevin, but our brains are really good at protecting us, right?[00:20:00]
Kevin Barhydt: Yeah, you think?
Haley Radke: Yeah. They're doing the job and I think there's something there that we can trust ourselves to know, like when we can open up the next door or the next door, or the next door. So it was really interesting how you said the order of things you dealt with.
Kevin Barhydt: It's an awful thing to have some of these traumas and I know that I'm gonna speak of something that you know all that well, all too well, because you've had someone on your podcast, Janet Nordeen. I love how Janet focuses on how the brain can change and the word “plastic.”
Haley Radke: Yes.
Kevin Barhydt: It’s a great word and it's funny because, as an adoptee that's almost, I guess if this is a word, fearsomely, unbelievable. Wow, okay. My brain's plastic. What does that mean? Because it gives me hope. That for the longest time, it seemed totally unrealistic that I could somehow heal from these traumas. Some of them, which weren't even uncovered, some of them, which I didn't even know I was carrying, and especially from the abandonment and [00:21:00] that really core sense of zero worth that I carried for so long. Janet really makes it okay to be as triggered as I have been. It's like yeah, you're triggered. Of course you're triggered. Of course this is happening. She talks about how it's a human thing and I never, I'll be honest with you, it took me a long time to realize I didn't even feel human. I didn't feel like I belonged here, like I wasn't a part of our species and it's a human thing to respond to trauma the way I did. That's the way Janet really makes me feel in a lot of work I do. There's nothing odd or unnatural about me, about my actual being, about my existence. It's the trauma that changed me. It's the trauma that rewired me. She talks about and I know you tried to memorize it, so I was trying to memorize it: Fight, flight, freeze, collapse. I remember
Haley Radke: That seems right. But I don't know.
Kevin Barhydt: Fight, flight, freeze, collapse. And we've all heard fight or flight. Freeze, I hadn't heard. And the collapse. Oh wow, did I identify with that. But it makes it so clear that [00:22:00] I'm in no way incapable of addressing these complex traumas, these issues, and that's what you and I were just talking about. What I love is that Janet doesn't let me off the hook. She's willing to put us to the test and to challenge us, or at least I feel like she challenges me to take the steps I need to relearn, to realign my thinking, to realign my life. It's actually funny because the research for so long believed that only the young brain, like my little kids, my grandchildren, was truly plastic and that the mature brain becomes essentially hardened, less capable of change. But I guess the better testing methods we have now we know that the mature brain has a significant neuroplasticity, more than we once thought and that's what's really cool is that there are some really simple ways, and that's the thing with me, simple is better, to harness that power, that neuroplasticity, what do I do? An interesting thing, [00:23:00] and I love to float it out there because of course I'm in 12-step work and I have, I sponsor people and I always say, “Are you sleeping?” So get a good amount of sleep. Keep your mind open, keep learning, keep moving, physical stuff, reduce stress, and we could all talk about reducing stress right now for sure. And here's the big one for me: having a purpose in my life, having a purpose. And you know me a little bit, you know that I'm driven, and my purpose is pretty clear.
Haley Radke: I really wanna go in two different directions. So I'm going to, first, I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna ask you about having your daughters at such a young age and looking at that through an adoptee lens now, as a parent to them, how have you, I don't know that part of your story. I don't know how you stay in their life or not.
Kevin Barhydt: I want to be cognizant that I'm speaking of other people that are in my life. So I will not be highlighting [00:24:00] certain areas. But I have two daughters. I have two wonderful daughters and they are, believe it or not, 40 and 39 years old. They were, as they call them, they were born less than a year apart, so their birthdays are coming up at the end of this month and early next month. So in a couple of weeks, my youngest daughter will be the same age as my oldest daughter, just for a few days. But it's interesting you ask that because I don't speak of that too often. And it is a very, again, possibly unique, and it certainly feels unique for me, aspect of my life, being adopted. I have two adoptive parents. My adoptive father has since passed away, but my adoptive mother is still with us at 91 and I have my oldest daughter and the thing that's a little unique is that I'm not her biological father. I am not her adoptive father. I'm her stepfather. During the years that her mother and I were together, we were very young. I was 16 when she was [00:25:00] born and I had met her mother in high school and then we had rekindled the relationship after I had dropped out of high school. And I say rekindled. It's not really that romantic, but we got back together and she was pregnant, five months pregnant. And I wanted to be with her mother. I wanted to be with her and I took on that responsibility. So my oldest daughter, who I love very much, and we're very close, is actually my stepdaughter. And I don't wanna tell her story here, but there's a whole story about her relationship to me as her stepfather, her mother, biological mother, my ex-wife, and her biological family on her father's side. And again, that's her story, but our relationship, I think even when she was little, was very solid, was very loving, especially after I got clean and sober. But I do remember that there was a [00:26:00] time, and I'd be hard pressed to find the exact age, when it started to dawn on her, that she wasn't mine and I wasn't hers. I think a part of that was that she was reminded of that by her sister, who was my biological daughter, and there was a lot of struggles with that for a period of time. And I remember coming to her and maybe she was nine, ten years old, and I sat her down on the curb in the front yard, and I know she was having a rough summer. She spent the summers with me. And we talked about it. I probably said all the things that maybe any loving, caring person would say, but I remember in the end I said to her, “I love you and I understand that our relationship is going to be whatever you choose it to be.” And again, she was young, so I don't think these are the [00:27:00] words I used, but I told her, “Whatever you need in your life for me to be or not to be is what I'll be or not be. But I can tell you the truth that no matter what you choose and what you decide, and as long as you live, in my heart and in my mind, you'll always be my daughter and I'll always be here for you, and I'll never ever leave you and I will always love you.” I didn't know what else to do. I didn't know how else to process that relationship and what I didn't want to do, even though I didn't have a deep understanding of my own abandonment issues at that point. I didn't want her to feel that I wouldn't be an anchor for her, that I wouldn't be someone she could rely on. And I've been that every day of my life to the best of my ability. And I think one of the most important things is I've chosen every day to be very honest about the limitations in that relationship and I didn't [00:28:00] tell her then, but as we've grown closer over the years as adults, and again, she's 40, so we're pretty much two old timers now, our relationship is very, very unique and very precious to both of us. We've supported each other through my own search for my biological family. She's been supportive of me and I've been supportive of her in her quest to understand her place in life. Her younger sister and I, interestingly enough, even though we're biologically connected, are quite a lot less close these days although I know there's a deep love for both of us, but I think that's more life circumstances. And I am hoping and praying and continuing to do everything I can do to take care of myself and be the best clean, sober, and stable person I can be so that hopefully in time the two of us will have a real fruitful relationship as time goes on.
Haley Radke: Thanks for sharing that. It’s interesting the language that you used with your older daughter, saying that you'll never [00:29:00] leave her. Did you know in that moment? It would've been earlier before you had processed adoptee things, I think. Just an interesting thing that you knew to say, “That's the thing you really need to hear from me.”
Kevin Barhydt: Well, yes. That's a certain language that I use. It's a certain language that was used with me and I'll be very specific here. As I told you, I'm part of a 12-step program and I have a sponsor. His name is Richard. Hi Richard. I'm sure he'll listen to this. Shout out to Richard in Arizona.
Haley Radke: Hi, Richard
Kevin Barhydt: Hi Richard. We love you. Richard's been my sponsor for 33 years and we're very close. He was the best man at my wedding and he's family. We're all family. But I remember in the early days before, I was just trying to get clean and sober and barely able to even string a couple of emotional thoughts together. And I remember very early on in our relationship, he told me that [00:30:00] he looked at me and hugged me, probably through a massive amount of tears, 'cause I was struggling terribly. And he looked at me and he said, “Kevin, I love you and I'll never ever leave you.” And that was probably the first time that I let that soak in. And I remember when he said it, it felt like someone had just shot me or slapped me because I couldn't believe that, because if I believed that, I was going to have to move forward with that, and I wasn't wired for that, but he somehow knew that those were the words I needed to hear. And I think that's where those words came from, Haley, when I was able to sit with my daughter, because it was probably, just maybe, I'm gonna guess, maybe three, four years after I got sober. So probably three or four years after Richard had ever said those words to me. I think that because he said them to me, I was able to say them to her, and now I can say them to others in my life. I love you and I'll never ever leave [00:31:00] you. It makes a difference. I hope that answers your question. It's very pertinent to everything that I believe and basically how I'm wired and how I wake up every morning.
Haley Radke: Yes, it does. Thank you. Okay. I wanna pivot a little away from your story and more into sort of what you do right now. And the question that I, as soon as we had scheduled this interview, literally, I was thinking about and it was: Okay, a man is talking about these things and, as you probably know, I feel like a majority of my interviews are with women. And as I watch your YouTube channel and we'll talk about that in a little while in our recommended resources segment, but you talk about very personal things. You talk about adoptee related things at a very deep level and talk about all these emotions you've processed and even things you've disclosed to us throughout this interview. And I feel like there's so few men [00:32:00] working in adoptee land. So where are all of you, Kevin?
Kevin Barhydt: Far and few between. I don't disagree with you, but I think that's why I do this. That's why I'm on your podcast right now. That's why the YouTube channel exists. We haven't talked much about the manuscript that I've written, but I have written a book that I’m pitching now and hope to have it published hopefully within the year. But I think it's really important, again, we talked about it a few minutes ago when we were talking about Janet Nordeen, having a purpose in life. And yes, through my recovery process, through all of the recovery in the 12-steps, through my recovery from the child sexual abuse, through the recovery of the primal wound and the abandonment and the issues, I've learned a great deal about myself, but I can only keep what I have. This is a phrase that comes straight out of the 12-step land. I can only keep what I have by giving it away. I can only continue to grow and have a sense of purpose in my life if I understand that all these things were freely given to [00:33:00] me. I had so many people that helped me. I had so many people that cared. I mentioned Richard, I mentioned Roz, Christina, my therapist, people that have just been by my side for years and watched me struggle, but watched me strive. The striving. So I think that there's a societal, I don't wanna say stigma. That's a good word. I think it's accurate, but I think there's a societal hiccup that seems to have happened over the years and I wouldn't be able to pinpoint the decades in the 1900’s when it just became less obvious that men were experiencing abuse, men were experiencing trauma, and men were experiencing emotional upheaval. And whenever that hiccup happened, I think it left us with a big kind of wait, what, how do we do this now? And maybe there's just the movements that have happened, and I won't label them right now, but the movements that have happened maybe in the [00:34:00] past 10 years, even the past couple of years, have really opened that door for people to be able to talk a little more. I'm hoping that what you're saying, while it's true today, that many men don't speak the way I do, and many men don't obviously disclose as relatively easily maybe as I do, and I wouldn't say this is easy, but as, as fluently as I'm willing to. I'm hoping that what you're seeing in maybe me being one of the few, I hope that's the new hiccup. I hope we're getting to a place now where there's another change, there's another, oh gee, what happened? And we move on and we come to this next place where, I'm not gonna say it's acceptable, because I don't think it's unacceptable now. I think people just aren't as cognizant of the help and support that's out there, number one, but the benefits of this kind of storytelling and the healing that happens through people like me, men, women like you, younger folks, older folks, folks that [00:35:00] have international stories to tell, folks that are from different walks of life. All of our stories. It doesn't just help the people that are like us. So I'm not telling this story because I'm a man and I hope that other men will listen, I'm hoping to tell my story because if you listen long enough, I'm sure no matter who you are and where you are and where you're from, you'll be able to find one little gem, maybe one little thread that you can pull on and it's for you. It's for you to take that thread and say, what do I wanna do with this? Do I wanna look at this thread and say, Hey, this is my whole life? No, 'cause it's a thread. But maybe you take that thread and maybe you take a thread from Janet and maybe you take a thread from Haley and you start weaving together your own quilt of what healing means for you. So I do feel like there's a sense of this is not gonna last, this idea that men are not going to speak out. Maybe there'll be a quality of people that are going to speak out and be more forthright about the abuse or the trauma or their healing. That will then [00:36:00] really, well maybe a year from now we'll look back on this interview and say, gosh, remember then?
Haley Radke: Yes. Yes. Oh, thank you for saying those things. I've had a couple of different men email me and ask me where is everybody? And they speculate on why. I hope we look forward to a future where there's more representation of voices in a lot of areas. So that's just another reason that I really appreciate you speaking up about these things.
Okay. We are rapidly getting to the end of our time together, and I'm just wondering if there's any message that you really want to encourage adoptees with before we do our recommended resources. You talk about a lot of different things through your story, you've experienced a lot of different things, but what's one or two things that you really want adult adoptees to just be encouraged by?
Kevin Barhydt: Well I would like you to be encouraged by what we just talked about just a second ago. First of all, the [00:37:00] power of sharing our stories and connecting with others. I think community is where we heal the best. I'm not saying it's the only place we can heal, but I think that is the more long-term essence of healing and reaffirming my place in life and our place in life is going to be much more powerful, much more impactful if we do it in community. And I know that's hard to do. I know there's a lot of social networking and there's a lot of things that come into play that can not make it easier or harder, but just make it a little bit more confusing. But any network that we can form, even if it's two or three people getting together for coffee once a month, even if it's a phone chat, even if it's reading some of the books, some of the literature, and then being a part of a book club or something. I think that what's important is to really understand that this healing isn't happening in a vacuum. Nor did the trauma. The traumas that happened to me were not just me in a room and having [00:38:00] something happen to me. There were a whole bunch of pieces that really affected me over time. I think the healing will happen the same way. I can do my therapy. I do my prayer and meditation every day. I do a lot of things that are solitary that really help me, but the community is the one that really lifts me up, that gives me the platform and the courage, in many ways, and also will give me the long term success and contentment and serenity that I'm looking for.
Haley Radke: Wonderful. Thank you. Okay, let's move to recommended resources. And so we have mentioned that you have a YouTube channel. So if you go to youtube.com you can just search Kevin's name and I'll have it linked in the show notes as well. But Kevin has started to build a vast resource library, and you talk about a lot of different topics on your channel.
All of the things that we've addressed today, you have probably more in-depth videos available, and I find them [00:39:00] very encouraging and inspiring, insightful. Even as I asked you a question a few minutes ago, you don't shy away from hard things and I think it's evident by our conversation that people can find out more about you on your YouTube channel and like you really go there. You don't hold back.
Kevin Barhydt: True, true, I don't. I know. And Haley I will say that I don't hold back. This podcast was pretty tame in some ways. You know that if you've seen the videos and the book that I've written also, and I will say that people have asked me, and I've had about 12 people read the manuscript and give me some feedback, but the majority of them have said, “Not for the faint of heart,” is one thing. The other thing they say is, “How are you still alive?” But some people say to me very bluntly, “Do you want your mother to read this? Do you want your wife to read this? Do you want your family to know this?” And I say to them, and it's the same thing with the YouTube channel or even this podcast, I say, “Are you crazy? I don't want anybody to know [00:40:00] this. I don't wanna be telling people about all this.” But that's the point. The point is: I'm here. I'm stable. I'm capable. I'm loving. I'm supportive. I'm part of a community. I'm growing and struggling and learning and changing just like you are. And that's the whole point.
Haley Radke: I know you've mentioned this a couple of times, but you found a purpose, right? And I love that this is a way that you're sharing with our community while living in your purpose. So yes, make sure you're following Kevin. We'll share where you can do that in a minute and so that you can hear when his book comes out 'cause that'll be very exciting. I'm really looking forward to reading that. I'm not scared to read it.
Kevin Barhydt: I'm sure you're not.
Haley Radke: The other thing I just wanted to highlight for everyone is I actually did a series “Adoptees On Addiction” and it's series five so if you scroll back in your podcast feed, episodes 91 to 97, we dive more into some other adoptee stories who have struggled with addiction just like Kevin has shared with us [00:41:00] today. And so if that's something that is in your experience or if you're looking to hear more adoptees who've chosen to go a 12-step route or chosen different things for their healing, I'd encourage you to go back and have a look at those. And there's some more male voices in that series as well.
Kevin Barhydt: And Haley, I know I talked about Janet a lot, but that's a really wonderful, if there's more than one thing, the compounding trauma. Janet Nordeen, and I don't remember what episode that was, but she was wonderful. My gosh, she packs more into one minute of talking then I can even unpack in an hour.
Haley Radke: I know. It's so funny when on those episodes, a lot of the times in the outros I'll be like, okay, you might wanna listen to this more than once. 'Cause you probably missed something.
Kevin Barhydt: That's right. That's right.
Haley Radke:* So true. So true. Yes. Thank you. Those are good episodes too. Okay. What did you wanna recommend to us today, Kevin?
Kevin Barhydt: Anne Heffron. Anne Heffron is a dear, dear friend of mine and she's also, I don't remember which episode, but she was one of your earlier podcasts. Her book, and I [00:42:00] love the title, You Don't Look Adopted, is just so perfect. It was written with such candor and innocence. Every chapter's like a journal entry on how our struggle to find worth and place and value feel. But, if you go to her website, if you've read the book and you haven't seen her website, go to anneheffron.com because Anne has made it her mission to continue that channeling of yes, the struggles, but also channeling the joys, the fun, the silly ups and downs. And that really becomes both a challenge and I think a legacy for all of us as adoptees who take the journey, solving this mystery, as I said, about our existence. If you also, one last thing, if you have an open mind and an open heart and you're a writer, or even would like to take a shot at that, Anne has been serving a lot of us who want to write as a part of our own journey. And you can work with her in her Write or Die program. And I think she's still doing retreats that expand on the Write or Die work even more. But Anne's a gem. She's a real angel. If you don't mind me saying, she's my [00:43:00] own personal Saint Anne. And there's a reason I say that and I'm just gonna briefly tell the story. I've never told it before, publicly.
Haley Radke: Oh, I can't wait to hear. Anne’s one of my good friends, so I'm excited to hear.
Kevin Barhydt: It's just a fun story. When Anne first read my manuscript and we got together in Boston, the two of us went out for lunch. And part of my story, which it's not blowing the story of course, is that when my adoptive parents could not conceive a child they would go to the basilica of St. Anne's in Quebec, and they would go to the shrine there and pray for, of course, a child. And the long story that my adoptive parents always told me was that I was their gift from Saint Anne. Because they came back from one of their trips and they got the phone call that I was available. Now there is another part in the book that I won't disclose here that talks about Saint Anne again, and it has to do with a necklace and a medal that my adoptive mother had given [00:44:00] me and that I had lost. When I met Anne for the first time and we were at lunch in Boston, she gave me a gift. Sorry, it really chokes me up. It's upstairs now. I probably won't ever wear it. It's too much. And I opened it up and it was a Saint Anne's necklace and it was a medal. I don't think anyone but her would've noticed that, and of course, it being Anne Heffron, it was more than perfect. So she's my own personal Saint Anne.
Haley Radke: Beautiful. Wow. It was such a joy talking with you today. I truly enjoyed it so much. I would love it if you would share where people can connect with you online.
Kevin Barhydt: Sure. My name is Kevin Barhydt, and it's a Dutch spelling, so it's pretty wrong, but it's B as in boy, A-R-H-Y-D-T, D as in David, T as in Tom, and it's pronounced like a high bar, bar height, Kevin Barhydt. If you look on YouTube, I'm one of the only Kevin Barhydts there, [00:45:00] and definitely the only one with a channel. You'll notice me right away because my icon is a baby picture. Probably one of the only ones on YouTube right now.
Haley Radke: With a cute little cowlick.
Kevin Barhydt: Haley, thanks a lot. But yes, it is an adorable picture. It's one of my favorites and it's been with me for some time. YouTube is probably the best place to see and hear more about my thoughts and Twitter would be the best place to find me to interact and I'm very active there.
Haley Radke: And your handle there is @KevinBarhydt as well.
Kevin Barhydt: That's correct. Kevin Barhydt. K-E-V-I-N-B-A-R-H-Y-D-T.
Haley Radke: Perfect. Thanks so much for sharing with us today.
I just wanted to mention that there is a really cool series right now on the YouTube channel, @NotYourOrphan. I don't know if you'll recall, but last fall we had Blake on from [00:46:00] @NotYourOrphan and we were talking about his YouTube channel and he has been having these really great conversations with other adoptees and how they are doing with the current circumstances, the COVID Pandemic. I was asked to be a guest along with Reshma McClintock from dearadoption.com, so we have a little chat about how it's impacting us right now, what life is like for us right now. So if that's something you're curious about, I would just direct you to go over to YouTube and type in @NotYourOrphan, and you'll be able to find that conversation.
I’m struggling. It's hard, you guys. I know there's a lot of people with really worse circumstances than myself, and yet, I too am having a hard time just parenting my two small children 24/7 and doing homeschooling and trying to keep up with the show. So just so you know, things might look a little bit [00:47:00] different here and there. I'm not sure that we'll get up a show every single week. I am doing my absolute best, but we'll see. We'll see how it goes.
One really amazing thing that I have been doing is we've been doing Zoom hangouts in the Patreon group for supporters of the show, and that has been so good for me to see your faces and to hear from your voice, what is happening for you right now? So I have so appreciated connecting in that way, and I'm so thankful for those of you who are able to keep the show going with your monthly support. It means so much to me, truly. It makes a really big impact for me and my family, so thank you. And if you are able to, if that is something that you're passionate about, for adoptees to be able to connect with other adoptees around the world and to build this community, go to adopteeson.com/partner to find out details of how you can join [00:48:00] and the other benefits. There's also another podcast we do every single week called Adoptees Off Script, which has just been really good for me to just have chats with friends that we might not put on a public page but we're willing to share with our monthly supporters. So thank you so much if that's you. And if money is tight, oh my goodness, do I totally get that. Please consider just sharing the show with someone. Maybe you know an adoptee who has struggled with addiction. Maybe you know a male adoptee who doesn't really know a lot of other male adoptees. Why don't you share this one episode of the show with them and they can connect with Kevin and see his YouTube channel and get hooked into community that way. I am just so grateful for you for listening to the show. I couldn't do this without adoptees cheering me on, and I'm really thankful for you. So thanks so much for listening. Let's talk again next Friday. [00:49:00]
