163 [Update] Maeve Kelly
/Transcript
Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/163
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Okay, let's get to the show. This is Episode 163, Maeve Kelly. One of our favorite guests is back. Maeve Kelly. She is a good friend of mine, and she is here to share her story of a trip to Ireland to meet some of her extended family on her maternal side. We have shared some major ups and downs in reunion with Maeve, and this is a really special episode. She dropped some really incredible wisdom towards the end. I really appreciate her candor and honesty. As always, let's listen in. [00:03:00]
I am so pleased to welcome back to Adoptees On, Maeve Kelly. Hi, Maeve.
Maeve Kelly: Hi, Haley.
Haley Radke: I made my husband guess who I was interviewing today and I said, “It is the third time she's been on and she was Episode 3,” and he said, “Maeve.” So he knew it was you.
Maeve Kelly: Wow. How many times has he listened to the podcast?
Haley Radke: He gave up a while ago. He for sure has heard your episode, but maybe he gave up in the fifties. But yeah, so you have been on, and then you were also on Episode 102, giving us another update. And you had some interesting things happen in the last while, so I'd love to hear about them. [00:04:00]
But first, do you mind giving us the little short version of your story just to remind people if they haven't heard your episodes for a little while, all about Maeve.
Maeve Kelly: Okay. So the Cliff Notes version would be that I am an adoptee from the Baby Scoop Era, a domestic adoptee, and grew up not knowing anything about my first parents or anything about my first family in a closed adoption and had always been really wanting to find out who I was and where I came from.
And later in life after I had my children, I started looking in earnest and I made contact with my first mother and then experienced some secondary rejection. I was sent a cease-and-desist letter from her lawyer after we'd had that one phone call, which I describe in detail in the first episode, which is the first time I'd ever told anyone that story. [00:05:00] And after a couple of years of shoving my feelings back into a box, I wound up making contact with her other children, my siblings. I think I discussed that in the first episode, no, I think I left the first episode with, I had not made contact with them, but I wanted to.
Haley Radke: Yeah, I think we talked about that. And you've been on Off Script, too.
Maeve Kelly: I'm a little overexposed. I hope people aren't sick of me.
Haley Radke: Well, I guess if you're friends with me, just, people just keep getting on. I don't know.
Maeve Kelly: Right, so let's see. Okay. And then in the Cliff Notes version, I made contact with them, and then my mother would not tell me who my father was. And I was desperate to find that out and I resigned myself to perhaps never knowing and was in a really dark place for a long time. [00:06:00]
And suddenly out of the blue, I got a hit on Ancestry and found out who my father was in the course of about a day by Googling and doing some other sort of internet sleuthing. And I have since reunited with him, and that's been a really wonderful, unexpected discovery and development for me.
So I think that was where we left it the last time we talked.
Haley Radke: Yeah, I was so excited for you. And we've talked a little bit since then about how there's still challenges, even in a nicer situation, I would say with your bio dad. But can you tell me about connecting with some of your extended family on your maternal side?
Maeve Kelly: Sure. So I had only made contact with my two siblings at first, and that didn't go very well. I met them both one time and I didn't do anything else in order to meet anyone else because I just felt really low about those meetings. I did not really feel accepted. They didn't really share much. [00:07:00]
I knew that there was a very large extended family in Ireland. I did a little research on my own, but I didn't try to make contact with any of them. I really just didn't have it in me. I had felt so rejected for so long, first by my mother and then by my siblings. I just didn't have it in me.
But I had my information out there on Ancestry and 23andMe, and in October of 2018, about a year and a half after I had first reached out to my siblings, I got a note from a first cousin on my maternal side. She was the first of my maternal-side extended relatives who had ever tested on any of the commercial DNA databases. That was a pretty big moment
Haley Radke: Because to your knowledge you were a secret and from a very large family.
Maeve Kelly: Yes, so it was definitely a secret. I knew that from my siblings who told me that my mother had never told anyone about me, including them, including her husband. She was planning to take it to the grave. [00:08:00] So no one knew it, not any of her siblings, not her parents. Nobody ever knew that she had been pregnant and had placed me for adoption.
So, I was sort of waiting. I knew this was going to happen because I knew what a large family she was from, and it was just gonna be a matter of time. And I'd even tried to raise it with one of my siblings to say, you know, it's gonna come out. My DNA is out there and at some point someone is going to test and it's gonna be out there. And I really don't want that to be the way that people find out.
I don't think that's a good way for them to find out. I think it's really jarring. It could be really upsetting and I don't think it's a great way for our mother, for this stuff to come out. It's terrible for me. And I really wanted her to tell her siblings and her extended family about me, but she wouldn't do it. [00:09:00]
And so sure enough, what happened was my first cousin, who actually lives in England, got a DNA test for her birthday, as they normally do, right? Isn't it always like a gift? And she had no expectation that anything exciting was gonna come out of this. She fully expected that her results were going to be 100% Irish, and they were. But I popped up in there as the only first cousin that was on her list, and she was actually in Crete celebrating her 50th birthday.
And she saw that she had me as a match, and she emailed me and she actually thought that I was my sister because she just couldn't understand. And I said, “I'm so-and-so.” And she's, “who are you?” And I said, “I'm so-and-so’s daughter.” And she said, “Oh, you're so-and-so” And I was like, “No, I'm actually her first child. She didn't raise me because of what I said.” And we took it from there.
Actually I was rereading some of the texts that she had sent me before we spoke this evening, just reminding myself of what that was like. [00:10:00] And she sent me a text very soon after we had made contact and she said, “I believe I'm the only member of the entire family who knows about you.” And then she said, “I really don't know what else to say except welcome to the family. I cannot wait to meet up with you. We will never let you go.”
Haley Radke: Wow. I have goosebumps hearing that, even though I think you've told me that a while ago. But did you believe that because you've had some not-so-great receptions?
Maeve Kelly: No, but I tell you, it was the opposite of the reception that I had gotten from everybody else. In any other time I had ever tried to reach out to anyone, it was always with a lot of distrust and they responded to me with some hostility, and I felt like I had to prove myself. It was very uncomfortable and not pleasant. [00:11:00]
And to get this immediately from someone who didn't know me at all. I clearly was breaking some kind of code, and she's writing this from her restaurant in Crete during her 50th birthday holiday with her husband. And that was her immediate reaction. I couldn't believe it. It blew me away. It really did.
It was the first time anyone had ever really been kind to me, either on the adoptive family side or on my birth family side as regards my reunion or my attempts to search or anything. It was the first time anyone had ever really said anything nice to me. So I was blown away. And that's who she is. I came to find out that she is that person. She's as kind and lovely and as wonderful of a person as I've ever met. And she doesn't know anything about adoption. Nothing. She really has no experience with it. She had a couple friends growing up that were adopted, but certainly never read anything about it. [00:12:00] She doesn't know anything. And for her to come out with it like that was just miraculous to me.
So we started off our relationship from there, and within about 24 hours of my making contact with her, she sent me over email the first pictures of my mother that I had ever seen. In the time that I had made contact with my siblings, we had texted a couple of times, and we met one time each, but they had never sent me a picture of her. And so my cousin is the one, she sent me what pictures she had on her phone and then she went home to her home and she took photos of pictures that she had on her mantle and she sent them to me. Immediately, without any reservation, without looking me up or investigating me, sent me these really lovely pictures. And it was incredible. I couldn't believe it.
Haley Radke: Amazing. Like, that's what you hope for, right? That's the dream. To have it extended from a cousin. It's pretty special.
Maeve Kelly: Yeah. Yeah, it was unexpected.
Haley Radke: So she lives in England? [00:13:00]
Maeve Kelly: She lives in England. She was born and raised in Ireland, and she married an English guy, and she's lived in England for the last 20 years. But she goes home to Ireland every couple of months because she wants to see her dad, who's in his nineties. And he's living alone, although close to her brother who cares for him, but he's still living alone in his nineties in a big modern farmhouse in County Mayo. So she goes home to see him every couple of months.
So, after we'd been in contact for, I don't know, about a year and a half, she said, “Hey, if you want to come to Ireland and meet more of the family, I would be glad to arrange for that for you and we can just meet there, I'll plan it around a time I'm going to be there to see my dad anyway. What do you think of February, 2020? Or April, 2020?” So I jumped on it and I said, “February, 2020.” Even though I knew the weather was going to be terrible, but I really wanted to do it as soon as I could. As soon as I had the opportunity. I didn't want to wait around.
Haley Radke: [00:14:00] And at the time we're recording this, we're still in the delightful pandemic of 2020, so it seems like you have picked the good time.
Maeve Kelly: I know, right? Who would've known? If I had waited, I wouldn't have been able to go. We were shut down here in March of 2020. Yeah, it’s really fortuitous that I did push it to February. So yeah, I went there in February.
Haley Radke: So what were you feeling when she asked you that? Like I'm just thinking, okay, am I gonna go to a country around the world and go meet some strangers and hang out with them?
Maeve Kelly: Exactly. I was exhilarated and terrified. In equal parts.
Haley Radke: But you just said yes. You just knew in your gut: of course, this is what I want. Wow.
Maeve Kelly: And, you know, I've always been that way. I am just hit the gas pedal and get to 70 miles an hour. I'm just, yes if I have an opportunity to meet someone with the exception of one person, which we'll probably talk about later, I'm all for it. So I was an immediate yes, and book the tickets. [00:15:00]
Haley Radke: Okay. So when she invites you and she's planning this around the timing to visit her dad and everything. But we're talking about your extended family. So has she been telling people about you? Did she contact your first mother? Do you know what was happening behind the scenes there?
Maeve Kelly: Ugh. Yes, I do, unfortunately. Like I had said, she's the first person in the extended family that knew about me because my siblings didn't tell anyone and my mother didn't tell anyone. She reached out to some of my aunts, the ones that she's closest with. And it started to sort of get around the family.
At that point, when my mother found out that it was getting around the family, she sent a letter out to the oldest child in every family group. She's one of nine siblings, so there's 10 total in her sibling group. [00:16:00] And of those 10, there's 39, including myself. So she sent out 10 letters to the 10 oldest, and I did hear about the letter. My cousin actually read it to me because she is the oldest in her sibling group.
So she got it, and it was like a one-page letter. It said, “Some of you are aware that I gave this child up for adoption. She may be contacting some of you. This woman”–she called me this woman–“has a family of her own.” It ended with something that was pretty bland. It was, “If she makes contact with you, then I would ask that you welcome her” or something like that. But it certainly was no resounding “this is my daughter and I'm so thrilled and she's a wonderful person.” Because at the end of the day, she'd never even laid eyes on me. [00:17:00]
I still haven't met her. And we have this very tortured history where she had sent me a cease-and-desist letter five years prior, telling me she was going to sue me if I ever made contact with her again. So it was a very tortured letter. And it made me out to be a bad guy. It was really distressing. It was a very sad letter. I was very upset about the letter. It was very cold.
So at that point, you know, it was out there, for sure. Now everyone definitely knew who I was. Then my cousin could talk more freely about me. And when I decided to come out in February of 2020, she started making plans a couple of months ahead of time to set up meet-and-greets for me.
Haley Radke: And did you have second thoughts when you knew that everybody got this letter blast, or were you still just like no, I wanna know some of these people. I don't know. I, it just feels so scary to me. You're so brave. I just, sometimes the things that you do, I'm just like, wow, [00:18:00] I'm in awe of you.
Maeve Kelly: I had so many second thoughts.
Haley Radke: Okay. Okay. So you're human Good.
Maeve Kelly: Third thoughts, fourth thoughts and fifth thoughts. Yeah, I really did. It was really difficult. Yeah. My cousin was really honest with me that she'd had some very tough conversations with two of my aunts in particular, who just couldn't understand why I wanted to meet any of them and just couldn't understand why I couldn't just go away.
One of them said to my cousin, “You know, she has a family.” Meaning my adoptive family. So I'm glad my cousin was really honest with me about that. I would much prefer the honesty. I think I'm like a lot of adoptees in that I need truth. I really need truth, I need honesty. I cannot stand it when people act like they like me when they don't or what have you. Like, I can deal with honesty and truth. So I was glad she told me all of that. I was more prepared and I didn't try to win them over. So when I went over there in February, there were two aunts who didn't want to meet me. [00:19:00] And that's fine. That's up to them. I can't do anything about that. I think that story was written 50 years ago. It's sad. It's really sad. And my cousin didn't try to press it.
Haley Radke: Yeah. This is sort of an aside. I don't wanna go down the rabbit trail, but did you find out, like, did any of them have any clue about you?
Maeve Kelly: No.
Haley Radke: Okay.
Maeve Kelly: No one had a clue, which is really, well, yeah.
Haley Radke: Because she was in the States already.
Maeve Kelly: Right. So long story short, she was in the States when she gave birth to me, but the entire family save one sibling was in Ireland and remained in Ireland. And she also moved in order to hide the pregnancy. So she was living and working in Manhattan. And her brother was also there in Manhattan, so she saw him every so often. But when she got pregnant, she moved to Philadelphia to hide it from everyone, even him. Never told a soul.
Haley Radke: Yeah. So she was fully successful, like, almost her whole life.
Maeve Kelly: Completely successful. No one had a clue. [00:20:00] And in fact, it's really funny. My cousin and I have had some jokes, because she said that, when she was speaking with a few of my cousins about it, they were joking about it. Like, my mother is the last one anyone would've expected to have this secret child because she's very proper. Everything is just the way it needs to be.
Haley Radke: Did you ever see that show, Keeping Up Appearances?
Maeve Kelly: No, I don't know that.
Haley Radke: It's a really old PBS show from the UK and the mom in that show is very proper and her name's Hyacinth and it ends up everything is always a big fail. But yes, it's the keeping up appearances part.
Maeve Kelly: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's pretty funny. And it is amazing when you think about it, how someone could keep the secret like that. She was absolutely going to take that secret to the grave, including from her own husband. [00:21:00]
Haley Radke: I'm reading The Girls Who Went Away in the Baby Scoop Era right now. And they went away, but people kind of knew, right? They still knew, they gossiped. Some of them were successful in hiding. Some parents were successful in hiding their daughter's shame, etc. But that's wild that she was gonna take it to the grave.
Maeve Kelly: She was a little different, too; she's not the typical girl who went away in that she was 30 years old when I was born. This was absolutely a choice of hers. If she had wanted to raise me, she absolutely could have made it happen. She could have gone back to Ireland. So many of her sisters were having babies at the exact same time, and I think I probably just could’ve slid in there and maybe no one would’ve even noticed, “Oh, there's another one!”
Haley Radke: Do you know what order you are in the 39?
Maeve Kelly: Oh my gosh, no. That's a really good question.
Haley Radke: Are you in the middle there somewhere?
Maeve Kelly: I think I'm right in the middle.
Haley Radke: Okay, that's there. I've done my rabbit-trailing. You went to Ireland, right? [00:22:00] I wanna hear about that. I just can't believe you did it.
Maeve Kelly: I can't believe I did it either. And again, like, harken back to the fact that my entire childhood all the way up to the time I was about 40, I had no idea about any of this. And I was never encouraged in any way to ever find my family. Ever by anyone. So when I found myself on that plane, I just couldn't believe it. So I flew out–I worked all the way up till Wednesday. The thing is, when I was preparing for this call tonight, Haley, I realized I have not processed this at all. Haley Radke: Oh no, I'm not supposed to bring up stuff people haven’t processed.
Maeve Kelly: No, but I mean, my counselor, she was like, “Listen, you need to write everything down. You need to really take this all in. You need to take some time off, before you go, after you go, you really need to think about it.” I didn't do any of that. I worked until Wednesday. I got on the plane on Thursday, then I came back and I went right back to work and I didn't write anything down when I was there, I was too tired. [00:23:00] I was so emotionally blown away every day that I couldn't write anything or reflect or think about anything.
So this is really the first time that I sat down the night before to get ready for this interview and I started looking at some of the pictures and stuff and thinking about what had happened. But, so anyway, I flew out on a Thursday. I spent the night at a London airport hotel on Thursday night, and then on Friday morning I flew out to Dublin. And my cousin and her husband picked me up at the airport, and the first thing that we did was we went to my other cousin's house for lunch.
So right from the airport, here we go. And my cousin had set up this sort of weekend itinerary where every day we were meeting with new groups of cousins, new family groups that she had set up perfectly, like to the hour. And they were prepped and primed for me to be there. So I would walk in and it's just, “Oh, [00:24:00] hello!” It's everyone's waiting for me. She knew, they knew exactly what time we were getting there, it was so organized. She did such a wonderful job.
Every day I was there, I had different groups of people I was meeting with, different relatives. So my first day I met right away with our mutual cousin and her husband and daughter. And we stayed at my cousin's dad's house. I have said that her dad is in his nineties. And he lives alone. So we all stayed in his house. Which was fantastic. It was so much fun. He's such a gentleman, and that was such a great place to stay. I had the whole sort of upper floor of the house to myself, which was really nice.
Haley Radke: Had you ever been to Ireland before?
Maeve Kelly: I had. When I was 14, I went there. It's a really painful memory. Very coincidentally, my adoptive father, his entire extended family from many generations ago is from the same county, County Mayo, as I am from. [00:25:00] And my adoptive father was really into genealogy and Irish history, and he brought us to County Mayo when I was 14, and we looked at graveyards and we went to cemeteries. And he walked into restaurants that had my adoptive father's name, last name, trying to find relatives from hundreds of years ago.
So his family had come from Mayo hundreds and hundreds of years ago. Little did I know that, at that time, my entire extended family was in the same county and I probably crossed paths with one of my 36 cousins during that timeframe. My grandmother was living about 10 minutes away from where I was when I was 14 years old at that little bed & breakfast. So I had been back there and it was a very painful trip for me. And then going back brought back a lot of those memories. Of course, I had no idea that I was from Mayo, but I do now. [00:26:00]
And I actually, when I was there, everything came back to me about being there and all that.
Haley Radke: Did it redeem anything for you or was it more just, “Oh my gosh, I can't even think about that right now?”
Maeve Kelly: I couldn't think about it. It was so painful. I couldn't think about the fact that there I was trailing, I have a distinct memory of trailing behind him and my adoptive brother, who was their biological son, as they were looking at cemeteries and dusty old books in churches to try to find some evidence of their ancestors, when in reality, my grandmother was 10 minutes away. Who's dead. And I will never meet her and she never knew I existed. It was very painful. It was really painful to think about. Yeah, but anyway, back to the good part.
Haley Radke: Yeah. [00:27:00]
Maeve Kelly: So then, Saturday morning my cousin brought me over to Foxford, which is where my entire family lived, including my mother being raised. And I met with her oldest sister, who's in her nineties, and she has six children and three of them were there to meet me, which was really amazing, including the oldest of the grandchildren. So the oldest of my cousins, a guy named Francis. I think he's like 60 years old now. And he is a very soft-spoken introvert, I could tell, and definitely not a gregarious kind of guy that's gonna be the life of the party. He was kind of standing away from me a little bit, and at one point he took me by the elbow and he took me into the next room. He looked at me, like, straight in the eye and he said, “I want you to know that you are welcome here.” It was crazy. I was like, “What is happening?”
Haley Radke: Did you cry? I'm crying.
Maeve Kelly: Well, I cried. I did. I held it together for that. I did cry when I met my aunt. So this would be the oldest of my mother's siblings. She's such a lovely lady. And it's a tiny house in Foxford, right? [00:28:00] She's lived there for 50 years, and they put her right next to the stove in the kitchen so that she could be warm because again, remember, it's February in Ireland. It's really cold. So she's sitting there next to the stove with the stove on to be warm. And they had left a chair there for me, for me to go sit there right next to her in the kitchen.
And I walked in and she's 92 years old and she pats the chair and she's like, “Come over here to me.” And she just looked at me and she was like, “You are the image of your mother.” And it was so sweet. And the thing was, I remember when I first made contact with my cousin. She was like, “Oh, everyone's really afraid of Auntie May. What is she going to think about you? What is she gonna think about this situation?” Because she's really the head of the family and she's gonna be the tough one. [00:29:00]
She was not the tough one. She was so sweet and loving and gentle. And I just sat there the whole time next to her, and she held my hand. It was so incredibly meaningful. And again, this is the first aunt or uncle I've ever met. It was this moment, and it was just incredible. It was so, so meaningful. Such a gentle lady, who grew up in a time where, you know, having a child out of wedlock is basically, you're doomed to eternal damnation, right? And she was able to step out of that. And just look at me as a real person and as a member of the family.
So it was really beautiful. And then each one of my cousins, actually, who were there, they all, Francis started it and he took me aside, and I said, what he said to me. And then the others also, individually, they each took me–they didn't just stand back and be in the conversation, but they each took me individually–into the next room to have a conversation with me. Which was, again, so unexpected and so meaningful. [00:30:00] So that was such an emotional time for me.
Haley Radke: Were you just like a wreck every night, like crying in your pillow?
Maeve Kelly: I was a wreck every day and every night. It was so hard. It was so hard. Then I went, I won't belabor it, but then I went on a funny murder mystery excursion with five of my women cousins. We had a blast that night. Just went off and I spent time as me and five cousins. And the whole time I'm like, “I cannot believe this is happening to me. Here I am with all these cousins, like I'm related to them. I'm just as related to them as they are to each other.” I couldn't wrap my head around that. Like these are my actual cousins. These are not my adoptive cousins. These are my actual flesh and blood cousins. I had to keep telling myself that because I just couldn't believe it. [00:31:00]
So the weekend went on and it was the same thing where my cousin would set me up with these meetings at the various family homes, and I would hang out with people, and then I would go back to the house. And collapse. One of the great things, actually a unique thing, that she arranged for me was a tour of the mill where my grandfather had spent his entire career. He worked in the Foxford woolen mill for his whole life. And she arranged for us to have a tour there. Which was just fantastic. And again, I just could picture him being there and it was very grounding to actually walk the walk, see the streets, see where he lived, where he spent his whole career, look at the buildings. It really put it in perspective for me.
Haley Radke: That's amazing. And when you were talking about just being with your cousins, I just kept thinking, most people just take that for granted, that they know that they're related to the people they see at family gatherings and stuff. [00:32:00] And then juxtapose to you following your adoptive dad looking at gravestones when you have no connection. That's really poignant for me because one of the major fights I had with my adoptive parents was showing me this folder full of genealogy stuff and I was like, “This is not my history.” There's no recognition: this is so important to me, but yours shouldn't be important to you. That's interesting that those things would come together, of course, on a trip like this.
Maeve Kelly: Right, yeah. So I met my only living uncle, who lives in Foxford. He, again, was as gracious and as polite and welcoming as I could ever hope. I met another one of my aunts. So I met my oldest aunt and my youngest aunt of the 10 siblings in that group. There's one in her nineties and one in her seventies. So the last aunt that I met was in her seventies and that was where I saw the most resemblance to me, sort of on the last day when I met that aunt. For sure, a lot of resemblance, which was really, really fun, actually. [00:33:00]
Haley Radke: Did anyone tell you anything about your mother when you were there? Did you even ask or was that kind of not really on the table?
Maeve Kelly: So people would make it a point of showing me pictures of her when I was in their homes. One thing that they did was each one of them, whether it was one of my actual relatives or whether it was an in-law, would show me family pictures and they'd always point out my mother and say, “There's your mother.” In a very nice way, a very loving way. They didn't really talk too much about her personality. A little bit here and there, but no, they didn't really tell me that much. No, I didn't ask either. I just wanted to be there for me.
Haley Radke: Yeah. [00:34:00]
Maeve Kelly: I didn't want to make it about her at all. I really wanted to be about me. And the whole story didn't really come out. If anyone asked too much about it, I just tried to keep it really light because, you know, I had been warned that I was making people uncomfortable or what have you, and that people felt like they needed to choose between me and my mother, and all of that. And that's like the last thing I wanna do is make people feel uncomfortable. So I just made it about me. And I just was so happy to be there and thanking people profusely and stuff like that. Just trying to have fun, trying to keep it light, right? You know, making jokes about, “Well, surprise, another cousin here!” And of course being American, I can always joke about that as well, apologize for whatever the Americans have done lately that's embarrassing the world.
**Haley Radke:**Wow. So I don't even know how many people you met. It would be hard for me to keep track of that many names and faces day after day. How did you wrap up and end the trip? And I know you went right back to work after, but there must have been some processing on the plane home. [00:35:00]
Maeve Kelly: Oh my gosh. I think I just collapsed on the plane home. I was so exhausted. I was so unbelievably drained. Because the other thing was, I am very much an introvert and it is really difficult for me to be in those situations. And I really felt like I needed to perform. I really felt like this was it. I've gotta do this. Like I've got to get these people to like me. I need to show them that I'm not crazy. I need to show them I'm not out for their money and they don't need to be afraid of me. I'm just a normal person. I need to be likable. I need to be smart. I need to be the kind of person that they are going to want to continue to have a relationship with.
It was exhausting and I did it for four days straight in several different environments with all of these people who were gathered in order just to meet me. And I collapsed. I just collapsed after that. I had nothing left in the tank. And then I came home and I just went right back to work and I haven't thought about it that much since. I mean, of course, I thought about it, but I haven't really sat down to be like, “Wow, what just happened there?” Like, “Okay, I can't believe that just happened.” [00:36:00]
Haley Radke: I really appreciate you saying all the things you were trying to hold together because I think so many of us hold that in reunion. And it is another reunion of sorts, right? Even if it's extended family, it is still completely legitimate, it counts, whatever you want me to say about that. But, to try and prove yourself like that, that feeling is always with us, “You still like me, right?” And, especially, I don't know, did you hear anything after the trip, like, from your mother? I keep asking about that because I know it was such a huge conflict.
Maeve Kelly: Not after the trip, but I did hear before the trip. I went in February of 2020. In December of ‘19, she got wind of the fact that I was planning this trip, and she emailed me. This is the first time she's ever initiated contact with me. [00:37:00]
She emailed me and suggested that we should get together in January, the next month, that we should meet. And she sent me some dates that would work for her for me to travel to meet her. She also indicated that she felt like it would be better for the family, that they would be more comfortable with me if I met her before I went and that wouldn't I agree that it would be better for them that I would do this.
And it ruined my Christmas, Haley, because this came in like the middle of December and I was already so worked up about this trip, thinking about it and stressing about it. And really just beside myself thinking, you know, the anticipation of it. And then I get this email outta the blue. I had really made peace with the fact that I was never gonna meet her. [00:38:00] And then she sends me this. I spent a lot of time reflecting about it, and I talked to my counselor about it a lot. And I came to the conclusion that I wasn't gonna do that, and that there was nothing good gonna come out of that for me.
And it was really, really clear that the only reason she wanted to meet me was because I was going to Ireland. And she thought that would reflect badly on her if we hadn't met before then. She didn't want that to be the story, and it also was really clear to me that it was going to be a one-time deal and I just wasn't willing to do that to myself. She had said some really hateful things to me on our one phone call, and I was picturing her say those hateful things to me in person, and I was picturing myself not able to recover from that.
And so I wrote her a long email back–I probably spent like a week doing this email–but I sent her a long email back in which I said something to the effect of I appreciate her reaching out to me and I would love to continue our communication, but I'm not ready to meet right now. [00:39:00] But I would love to hear from her again. And I explained that I'm very afraid of what she would say to me if we met in person, and I'm very afraid that she only wants to meet me one time, and I didn't think that I could handle that.
And she never replied. Well, no, I take it back, she did reply. She said something like, “I can understand why this is not a good time for you. Maybe we can meet some other time.” That's what she said, and then I never heard from her again. So I was right, she didn't want to meet me for me; she wanted to meet me because I was going to Ireland. That's why. So it wasn't about me. So that was really hard. That was really, really hard. It was yet another holiday that had been ruined by adoption. I dunno about you, but like every holiday is ruined by adoption for me and for some reason or another, you know. I was like, “Darn it, I wanted to have a good Christmas.” I was really angry that Christmas, I was like, “She did it again!” [00:40:00]
Haley Radke: We may have talked a little bit about this situation, and I recall it quite vividly, in fact. Okay, now I'm gonna put you on the spot here, I think. I wonder if you have any advice coming out of this for other adoptees because, if you'll recall in our very first call, I think we both said to each other, basically, our mothers could do anything and we would run back to them. And yet, these years later you had that opportunity, but now you have these extra supports in place and you can read between the lines a little. And it sounds like you made a really wise choice for yourself and had really good boundaries about it all. Can you talk a little bit about that and how you, I guess maybe, extend that advice? It was so cool that you [00:41:00] still got some answers about your history and some connection and you didn't need to have the “pity visit,” I guess–I don't know what else to call it. It was gross the way that came about, so, I don't know, thoughts on that or advice?
Maeve Kelly: I can't give advice to anyone. I'm barely–I have no idea what I'm doing. The only advice I would have is just that you never know what's coming around the corner and you really can't predict what's going to happen in this bizarre life of adoption.
I never would have anticipated that my cousin would've reacted the way that she did. Never. I never could have anticipated that I would be at a place that I would decline to meet my own mother. I guess just to be ready for anything and not to put too much pressure on yourself to ever handle anything perfectly. I do think a lot of these things are put in stone before we're even born. [00:42:00]
I think two things have come out of my experience over the last several years. One thing really hits me. I think that sometimes we're presented with situations that come out of the blue. And the way that we respond to those situations shows what kind of people we really are. And I think the way my cousin reacted to me in that moment, when she's sitting there and getting that email from me and realizing who I am, it shows who she is as a person at her core. And I think the same is true of my mother. I think she's shown the person that she is. And you just can never know how any individual is going to react to these situations.
And you have to be ready for anything and not put pressure on yourself to try to control the result or control how other people are going to act. [00:43:00] Because the second big learning that I've had is: we can say the most perfect things in the most perfect way and explain things and just perfectly, and write the most perfect letter and be the most perfect person. And the people who were meant to reject us are still gonna reject us. And the people who were meant to accept us are still gonna accept us.
It's not our fault. None of this is our fault. This is just the way people are and the way the story was written well before we were born. So I've taken a lot of pressure off myself, I think, and realized that this really isn't about me and I can't control the way people are going to react to me or not react to me.
Haley Radke: I think that's very wise. [00:44:00] Something I've learned from you, and I'll just check if this is how you've reacted in the times you've had an opportunity to do so when you've received communication or information, you have paused and really decided how you're going to respond versus –I know some of us, especially if we're communicating by email, digitally in some format, and we feel like we need to give that instant response. I feel like you're really good at the pause and considering before you responded. I think that really helped you, Do you think so?
Maeve Kelly: Yeah, I do. I think I made a lot of mistakes in the beginning, for sure. I think part of that is just my personality too. It’s a little bit of self-preservation. Yeah, I always think it's good to pause and, of course, we need help with this stuff. Trying to go about these sorts of monumental, life-changing, incredibly emotionally impactful events without help is impossible. We need each other, right?
We need other adoptees in our corner. We really need people, we need our adoption-competent therapists along with us. I did make that mistake early on, when I first made contact with my mother. I was completely alone. [00:45:00] I had no idea what I was doing. I was not in therapy. I did not know a single adoptee. I hadn't read anything about adoption. I had no idea what I was doing. I made so many mistakes. But, you know, now that I've grown up a little bit, I've learned a lot and I realize we really need our people along the way. So I've learned that.
Haley Radke: Yeah, we really do.
Maeve Kelly: We can't do this alone. We can't. It's too big. This is way too big. This is more than one person can bear. It really is. It's overwhelming.
Haley Radke: Thank you so much for sharing about your trip. I'm so excited, we're gonna do recommended resources and this is only one good thing I can think of right now about the pandemic, is that there are so many awesome online things happening for adoptees. I finally got to see a play I have been dying to see, The Good Adoptee by Suzanne Bachner. I don't know if you've ever had a chance to see it in person, Maeve? [00:46:00]
Maeve Kelly: I have not, but I know I've seen pieces on it or write ups on it, and I've always wanted to. I was planning, actually, on going to see it and then the lockdown happened. But I know what you're talking about.
Haley Radke: I'm sure a lot of us have seen the playbill for it. Anyway, it has been recorded and I was messaging Suzanne a little bit back and forth, and she told me they are going to do another online adaptation of it, as well. But I was able to rent it and watch it and I just loved it.
It's a one woman show and one of the most interesting parts of the play, I thought, if you like the tea spilling, I love that [00:47:00]. If you listen to any of the things I share on the Adoptees Off Script on the Patreon podcast, you'll know that about me.
She talks about hiring a search professional who probably a lot of us have heard her name before. She doesn't say her whole name, but she gives all the hints that you need to figure out who this is. And about the drama behind the scenes of that. And I found that really interesting because I never needed help searching, and I know there's so many people that use Search Angels or do hire a private investigator, and what that looks like.
So, yeah, if you want a little tea, that, I feel, is one of the bonus parts of the play, but I really enjoyed it. It was really well done, and of course I would love to see it in person and I hope I will be able to sometime. But I really think it's a great way to support an adoptee who's doing some really amazing creative work. [00:48:00]
So I really enjoyed that and I'll link to where you can watch it in the show notes. You do pay to view it. Of course, we should pay adoptees for their art just like other artists. And then when there's a new version, I will let you guys know as well. I'm not sure the timeline on that, but I really loved it and highly recommend.
What did you wanna share with us?
Maeve Kelly: If I could do two quick ones. I had meant to bring up this piece that I just read today in Medium by Mindy Stern. I don't know if you know Mindy, but she's on Twitter quite a bit. I follow her, and she does this really great piece about how she met her birth father and coming out of the airport, what that was like to see him in the baggage claim. And it is exactly what it was like for me when I met my birth father as well, and also when I got off the plane in Ireland to go meet my cousin. I just think that she's such a great writer and the stuff that she writes about really resonates with me. [00:49:00]
And the second one, if I can give you a second one, is of course, Jessenia Parmer. She has the I am Adopted website, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. And this month for National Adoption Awareness Month, she is posting just about every day a different story or an account by an adoptee, giving each person the floor to talk about their adoption experience in their own words. And I'm finding these pieces so moving, really moving. So well written. And I find when adoptees can just talk about their experiences in their own words without interruption, it's the most powerful method of communication there can be. So I can't recommend that enough. What Jessenia is doing.
Haley Radke: Yeah, it's such a good series. [00:50:00] And she started another Instagram account, and it's (at) adoptee mental health stories, so she's curating them there as well. And I don't know about you, Maeve, but I love that she has the photos of the authors. Because you're seeing their face and their story. I love having that connection. That's the special part of Instagram, right? The extra visuals. It's really well done, very well curated of course, by Jessenia, who does all the good things for our community. She's amazing.
Thank you for sharing those. I'm so glad we got to highlight them. Thanks for sharing your story with us. Again, if you want to go back and hear Maeve tell her other stories from the beginning. She was in Season 1, Episode 3 and back again in Episode 102. And she has a couple episodes on Adoptees Off Script. If you want to tweet to her, what is your Twitter handle, Maeve?
Maeve Kelly: I am (at) MaeveKelly11.
Haley Radke: Wonderful. Thank you so much. [00:51:00]
I'm so grateful for adoptees like Maeve who are ready to tell it like it is, the hard stuff and all. I think it really helps prepare the rest of us for what reunion and search can actually look like and what's going on behind the scenes of our mind while we're in the moment. I think it's really helpful to help prepare us if we ever get an invitation like that. Anyway, I'm so thankful for Maeve and for the other connections I've built from making this podcast. It's been really special to see how we have changed and our opinions have evolved over the last few years, and I'm grateful I get to share that with you
I want to thank everyone who has signed up so far on Patreon. There's been so many of you signing up for the yearly membership and getting one month free and others that are signing up for month-to-month membership, which is awesome also.[00:52:00] And I've received several donations and I'm just really thankful for your support. I don't know how many times I can say it, so I'll just say it one more time: Thankful for your support, for your ongoing support of the show.
And if it's not in the budget right now, literally one of the best ways you can help the show is to just share it with one person. So if you know an adoptee who would really connect to Maeve's story, you can share this episode or share your favorite episode, maybe a Healing Series episode with your adoptee support group, or another one of your favorites.
And, the best part about podcasts is that they're free and you can teach other people how to download them. Because you're listening to this. So if you grab their phone and show them how they can listen to Adoptees On, it's a huge gift to me and to them. So thank you. Thanks for sharing the show.
Thanks for your ongoing support in so many ways, and thanks for listening. Let's talk again next Friday. [00:53:00]
