178 Ferera Swan
/Transcript
Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/178
Haley Radke: [00:00:00] You are listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. This is Episode 178, Ferera. I'm your host, Haley Radke.
Before we get started, I want to let you know how much it means to me that you're showing up here to listen to adoptee voices. I remember when I was first in reunion with my dad, and we hit the inevitable rocky patch after the honeymoon period faded. I felt so alone. I believed that I was absolutely unlovable because my first mother had ghosted me after a few months into our reunion just a decade prior. For me, creating this podcast has been a tremendous labor of love so that other adoptees like me, who were feeling alone, struggling in reunion, or coming out of the fog, would have connection, so we wouldn't feel like we were crazy. The wildest part [00:01:00] of all of this is that it's succeeded. Adoptees On has become our show to connect and share what the adoptee experience is really like. And I'm asking you today to support the podcast and make it sustainable for me to continue doing this work. I'm Haley, the host and creator of the show–our community's show–and I'm also a wife and mom of two little boys, who are trying their very best to stay quiet as I record this.
Haley Radke’s little boys: Hi, Mommy.
Haley Radke: They're trying their almost best to stay quiet. When you sign up for Patreon or donate via PayPal, you are helping me, Haley, contribute to my family's needs. What I didn't expect when I started podcasting was that this would become my full-time job. I'm showing up for you and saying yes to adoptees, and I would love for you to show up for me and commit to a year of support for Adoptees On. I have big plans, and I want to do [00:02:00] huge things for adult adoptees, but I can't do it without the support of you, my listeners. For the month of April only, I have a sale on for a yearly membership to Adoptees On Patreon with one month free. After that, it'll be back to regular price. I'm honored by the support I have already gotten from the community, and, truthfully, pretty scared to make this ask again. But if I'm going to continue making the show, I really need your help to make it sustainable and to have the ability to meaningfully contribute to my little family over here and to hire other adoptees to help build the show. Click the link in the show notes or go to adopteeson.com/partner to sign up right now. Okay. Let's get to the show.
Ferera Swan is here to share her experiences of reunion and secondary rejection with us. We talk about the impact other members of the extended family can have on our reunions. And Ferera tells us about the meaning behind her name and what her producer encouraged [00:03:00] her to include in her song “Second Time.” We wrap up with some recommended resources, and, as always, links to everything we'll be talking about today are on the website adopteeson.com. Let's listen in.
I'm so pleased to welcome to Adoptees On, Ferera Swan. Welcome, Ferera.
Ferera Swan: Hi. How are you, Haley? It's so great to be here.
Haley Radke: I'm so glad to have you. I'd love it if you would share some of your story with us.
Ferera Swan: I'm a domestic adoptee, and I was born in Texas. I'm from Texas, in Houston originally, and I actually wasn't ever told that I was adopted directly from my parents. So I had asked my parents if I was born from my mother. Those were the words that I had used when I was about six, and then again when I was about eight, and I think both times I didn't get a direct answer. But then finally when I was 10, we were on a [00:04:00] vacation in China, and that's when I ultimately asked, and they told me. My mom told me that, yes, I was adopted. So I guess I'm diving into how I found out I was adopted. And then from there I was able to go to the adoption agency when I was 15. My adoptive mother actually took me, and I was able to retrieve some documents. I guess my file, and it had a poem, a letter, and two black-and-white photos of my birth parents. They were photocopies, so I couldn't really see them very well, and then a bunch of, I guess, social work home visits and things like that, information on my biological families. So I was able to get that when I was 15. I've been in reunion since 2008. In 2008 I decided to search, and I found [00:05:00] them on my own, actually, through ancestry.com. Not AncestryDNA, but ancestry.com. I found my birth parents' marriage license. And so that was a crazy thing to find because I didn't actually know that they were married.
Haley Radke: Were they married before you or after you? Does she remember with the date?
Ferera Swan: I believe they got married after they relinquished me. So yeah, they were in high school. I don't know if you would call them high school sweethearts, but they were young and in love. She was very young, and he was young as well. So yeah, that's basically a nutshell. I just gave you an outline. And then I ultimately met them in 2008, the same year, and that was quite an experience. I reconnected with my paternal family first, [00:06:00] and then I ultimately found my birth mother's twin sister.
Haley Radke: So they weren't together anymore?
Ferera Swan: Oh, no. They got divorced. So she moved back to Chicago and he went back to the Philippines, and that was that. But I learned a lot about their story and their relationship and just everything they had gone through at the time. Where my birth father's family wanted to keep me, but ultimately my bio mother's family decided to relinquish for her because she was, I believe, 16 by the time she actually had me because she was 15 when she got pregnant.
Haley Radke: So you found her sister and how did you get in contact?
Ferera Swan: It was actually the craziest story. The way [00:07:00] I found the marriage license was that I... So on the poem that she wrote titled “Never Forgotten,” which was for Marilyn, which is what she named me. I'm going to omit her name for her privacy. But whoever was in charge of whiting out the identifying information–the last names–forgot to white out the first three letters of my bio mother's last name. And so those three letters, I had seen them all this time since I was 15. But I didn't think anything about it because I was like, I can't do anything with three letters, her first name and three letters. And that's when the guy that I was dating at the time suggested that I could maybe Google a Filipino last names database to see what I could find. And I had said, I'm probably gonna find thousands of names. But actually there were only three that I [00:08:00] found on the website. And I just happened to guess the right one. And so I typed her name in on ancestry.com, and their marriage license was the very first thing that popped up on the screen. I was just like, Oh my gosh. So that was really surreal. I saw my last name for the very first time in my life. I couldn't even...I didn't even really... I wasn't even sure how to say it. So I took the last name, and I was able to find, with the internet these days–and at that time it was MySpace and I think Facebook was around–but I found my birth aunt because her first name was in the documents. So now I had a first name and a last name, and she hadn't married or anything, so I was able to locate her, and I called her, I think the next day or the same day. I don't even know when.
Haley Radke: What did you say to her? [00:09:00]
Ferera Swan: I think I called her at work, and it was a New York phone number. I said, "This is going to sound really weird, but do you have a sister who gave up a child for adoption?” And it got really quiet. And then, she gave me her phone number and then we talked later. And when we talked, one of the first questions she had asked was what my intentions were. Not in a mean “what do you want?” kind of way. I think she was genuinely curious why I was reaching out. But, I don't know, we chatted for I think it was four hours straight. It was really... I felt an instant connection, and I'll just say that I developed a relationship with this aunt over the next however many months. We would talk sometimes on the [00:10:00] phone for seven hours at a time. Yeah, sometimes I was like, Doesn't she have to work? I don't know. There was never any pauses. It was just constant. So we grew to be very close, but it was very tragic ultimately because I'm no longer in a relationship with my bio mother or my aunt. So that's... I mean there's so many different things. I'm just thinking out loud and replaying all that happened. But it's really unfortunate because I think, looking back now, I really wish I would have found my biological mother first, instead of my aunt.
Haley Radke: I'm curious about that. You gotta say more about that. So how did it go from a four-hour phone call with your aunt to meeting your biological mother? And then how did it play out?
Ferera Swan: We developed a relationship. And then [00:11:00] the three of us got on the phone one day, and I got to meet my biological mother over the phone first. But my aunt was also on that call. It was such an amazing, surreal experience just to see, just to hear my mother's voice for the first time ever. And I've written about this before, but I was talking and then she paused, and I was like, Hello? Are you there?" to see if she was still there. And she said, "Yeah, I'm still here. I'm just listening to the inflections of your voice." And I remember that. How it impacted me to hear that. And I always say that for the very first time, the woman who gave birth to me was telling me, I hear you, and I [00:12:00] felt alive for the very first time. It's really what it felt like, the experience. But it's a blur because I want to say I think I'm not sure if I believe my aunt was on that call, but I do feel like she was very much a big part of this experience. So one thing I'll say is that she is the twin of my first mother. She's her twin, and they are very close. They have a very, very, very close relationship and friendship, and it's a very special bond. I'm not a twin, but I can imagine twins have that bond, and I think that her daughter coming back into her life after all these years caused some tension. I'm describing it from my perspective, it seemed like it caused a lot of tension between them.
Haley Radke: So you said that your aunt hadn't married. Had she had any children? [00:13:00]
Ferera Swan: No, and she does not.
Haley Radke: Okay. And then your first mother, did she have any other children?
Ferera Swan: Yeah. So I have a half-brother that I've met. I guess I should say we had reunion in Houston first. I met them; my grandmother flew down, my first mother flew down, my aunt, my other aunt, and then me and my then boyfriend all met. We had a weekend together. I'm a musician so that night I brought my keyboard, and we actually played piano. We played keyboard for each other for the first time ever, which was super, super cool and weird at the same time. Because, yeah, she just writes music off the top of her head. I don't know. And that's where I get that from. I've always been able to do that since I was a kid, and she's always been able to do that as a kid. And my [00:14:00] half-brother is also a musician. I got to meet him later that year when I flew to Chicago and met him when he was about six years old.
Haley Radke: So were you an adult when you were united?
Ferera Swan: Yeah, I was just 25 and my bio mother was 41. Which is crazy because my husband's 43 now, and it's crazy to think that he's older than she was at the time. So many years have gone by but it doesn't feel like it's been that long.
Haley Radke: I have that same kind of little bit of a feeling because next year I'm going to turn the same age as when I first met my first mother. Yeah. And so it's a bit of a mind-eff, let's just say it as [00:15:00] politely as I can. Because you're like, Oh my gosh, what would I do if I had this long-lost at this age? So it's interesting that you've got that little dynamic there. Okay. So you had this meeting and stuff, but you said that your relationship felt a little bit like it messed up or was, I'm not sure exactly the language you said, but about your bio mother and her twin sister, because they had a really close relationship. Can you talk more about that? What makes you think that?
Ferera Swan: I think it would be helpful to share what happened the first time we ever met. So we were in a restaurant. We were in the foyer and they walked in as a group and my aunt approached me first and hugged me. And then I hugged my bio mother and, of course, we both cried like right there in the middle of the restaurant. And then, [00:16:00] I later found out that that was an issue for my bio mother. I don't think she liked that her sister hugged me first.
Haley Radke: She got to talk to you first and she got the first hug.
Ferera Swan: Right. And I later learned that an argument ensued over that which was a very, for an adoptee, I think, at least for me I'll speak for myself, I've never really felt, I've always struggled with feeling really desired, wanted. Special's not the right word, just wanted. I've never really felt wanted in that way, and so to learn that there was an argument over who hugged me first... And I've gone over some old emails, which I cringe when I read them, like how I talked back then. But anyway, it was just, it was like, I don't know. There really aren't any words for how it made me feel, but I was like, Wow, she wanted [00:17:00] to hug me first. But it was also very unfortunate. I didn't feel guilty for it but I felt sad for them, that this happened between them. That they had a conflict over it. I was unaware of how that played out as the relationship continued, as the reunion continued, but I always feel like that was a thing.
When all these feelings of grief surfaced for me and I was navigating all these emotions of anger that came up, and I really didn't even know why, what I was processing because there's no handbook for reunion. I think we like ran at each other full speed and just missed each other. That is how it felt because we were so close and I think we were both navigating–I think she was navigating her grief and I was navigating mine–and we just [00:18:00] didn't see the other person's pain. I don't think she could make room for my pain at that time, at that age where she was at, and with the information that neither of us had. So tragically we stopped speaking. I asked if we could talk on the phone to discuss it. I wanted to talk about it and I never heard from her again.
Haley Radke: How long was that? How long were you in relationship with her before you had stopped speaking?
Ferera Swan: Six months or so, I think. But what was interesting is that my aunt reached out to me later and we had a relationship. I don't know why I feel like I want to say “on the side.” That sounds really bad, but it really did feel like it was. I always wondered if my bio mother even… She made it seem like she was aware that we were in a [00:19:00] relationship. But then. So the thing that I've never actually talked about on a podcast before, and I thought about whether or not to bring it up, but I think it's important because it's caused so much grief and pain and just the things that I've been trying to navigate on my healing journey. This was a huge event that happened. So I was continuing this relationship with my aunt, who I really was coming to admire and respect and really trust. And then I was supposed to fly to New York to see her and she ghosted me. There was an event or two that happened on her end that made her unavailable, but then whenever I tried to follow up and reschedule–I really don't know what happened but she just stopped talking to me. And I was [00:20:00] incredibly hurt and I was so confused. I had no idea what happened. I really don't know what happened. To this day I still don't know what happened and this is where we are. But I've got to say, what is the most hurtful things I ever learned years later is–a mutual friend told me–that my aunt had made a comment, and that comment was, "I just don't want her to think that she's gonna get everything handed to her on a silver platter." And I was so confused by that. I was so hurt by that. I think that there's a lot of biological families that have this kind of idea that adoptees are coming into their life because they want this or they're just trying to get that, or whatever. And I'm like, No, we want to connect with our [00:21:00] families. I just find it so heartbreaking that they would suggest that or that they would perceive that we have some kind of intention, some kind of any other intention, aside from just wanting to connect.
Haley Radke: You said that in your first call with your aunt, she was trying to press you to see if you had some sort of ulterior motive.
Ferera Swan: Right, and I think, as a 25-year-old, I was just heartbroken. I didn't know what I did wrong. Adoptees are constantly asking, What did I do wrong? Anyway, so there's where we are. And I don't know what happened, what could've happened.
Haley Radke: So we have talked about this before a few times on the show, and the language that we usually use is “secondary rejection.” So it's like you got it twice. Let's see, your biological mother and then your aunt. And [00:22:00] I, too, got the ghost experience, and the reason I say we've talked about it before is because I've talked about this with several guests and lots of adoptees off-air. It's: God, couldn't we have just had a huge fight so I know the reason? Couldn't you have written me a really scathing email and just say these are all the reasons I never wanna talk to you again? Something. Just give me something.
Ferera Swan: I think that echoed the “why was I given up?” layer of trauma and rejection that I think a lot of adoptees do experience. But one thing was like what you said: Couldn't you just write me an email? Actually, my bio mother and I did have an exchange that kind of preceded the end of our–I say “the end”–why we stopped talking. But in her email she did say that I was making it all about [00:23:00] me and have I ever thought about how she felt. I really want to highlight the fact that I'm not bringing this up to shame her feelings or shame the fact that she said these things at 41 when she didn't have any information about what she was dealing with. It doesn't erase how hurtful it was to me because in adoption, it is always about the child, I believe, no matter what if we're truly talking about the best interest of the child. But I think she was hurt because I was where I was at with what I was processing and we were just not–there was a lot of telling me that I was being inconsistent. I would say one thing and then I wouldn't do it. But I think as adoptees, we know that navigating reunion is not a linear process and we don't know what the heck we're feeling half the time. [00:24:00] It was the craziest experience of my life. I felt like I was living two lives. I was dealing with the guilt that I felt towards my adoptive family, like I was doing something bad. I had to make sure I was talking to them just as much. It was just insanity. So yeah, I just think that's what's so heartbreaking about reunion is that we're up against something that's not normal, that nature didn't design. We're trying to navigate this thing where we come back together and it's like, how do we build relationships that are authentic and that can sustain? Because I think, I feel, like adoption took that from us. I'll never know, probably. I have heard from my bio mother since. I reached out to her in 2000–I think it was '18, and I haven't heard back from her–explaining some of the things I'm [00:25:00] sharing with you and my thoughts on what happened during our reunion. Why it might have unfolded that way, how I'm sorry that she's been sitting in her grief, too, or having to live with her grief, and that she's not alone in it, because I carry that grief every day with her. And just letting her know she's not alone in that pain. But I do think that she also grew up in a different time. She's not that much older than me, but she's from a different generation. And I don't even know if she's read it yet. The last time we had an exchange on Instagram, she told me she had not read it yet, that she would read it when she was ready. But here's the thing. I've gotta say this because I shared a collage of my biological parents and me on Instagram, and one of the photos I used was a photo that I had of her that did not belong to me. I found [00:26:00] it, and I used it on the collage. And now, in retrospect, I should not have done that. I should have used one of my photos that I had of her. So that was an issue. I got a message from her, and my heart skipped a beat and I was like, Oh my gosh, she messaged me! But the language was threatening. In a nutshell, it was like, If you don't take this down, I'm going to have to report you to Instagram. I chose to respond with kindness and compassion. But I was angry, and I think justifiably so. Again, it's that whole you think that I'm posting this because I'm trying to–the word used was “exploit.” Which is interesting because adoptees are exploited in adoption. And you know what? A lot of people, I'll just be really honest, are like, Why do you even waste your time? Just forget her. Move on. [00:27:00] And I'm just like, I wish I could, but she's my mother. Let's use honest language. Adoption relinquishment doesn't erase biology. It doesn't erase our need, our primal need, for that maternal connection. But she did respond, and she was nice. She did say she wasn't trying to be mean. But still….
Haley Radke: So recently, as of this recording, I saw something happen to you on Instagram. You shared that you accidentally followed her on a social media platform and you tried to undo it right away. There's always this thing, even when you said, Oh, I reached out to her 10 years later, literally a whole decade later. I'm connecting with this because, like I said, I share this experience of secondary rejection and I've reached out a few times.
Ferera Swan: Oh, wow.
Haley Radke: [00:28:00] And heard nothing, like zippo. Like from the outside looking in, do people think we're, like, stalking them? It's not. Just once a decade. Does that count as stalking? Does accidentally following and, oh my God, quickly unfollowing as fast as possible and just praying that their notifications are not set count as stalking?
Ferera Swan: It's so weird because, like you said, does that count as stalking? But these are the things that go through our brains. We don't want them to think that, but then again, why is it the adoptee's responsibility to remain a secret or remain out of sight? Or don't even accidentally follow me. There's so much there that I feel is, and I'm going to use this word: unjust. I think it's not just unfair, it's unjust. The level... Yeah. [00:29:00] It looks like you wanted to say something,
Haley Radke: I do. I want to ask you a question.
Ferera Swan: Okay.
Haley Radke: So for the last few years, you have become a meme machine. And you have so many, really, it's the gamut. There's inspiring adoptee posts, there's adoption truth, is what I would call it. Sharing statistics about different things that the community needs to know, talking about family preservation, talking about the challenges in just being an adoptee in adoption land, all of those things. How is that for you, being public about these struggles and calling out truths about the adoptee experience and knowing that your biological family can be viewing these things and seeing these? Do you ever have a thought like, Oh my gosh, if I hadn't have said that, maybe I would still have a chance.
Ferera Swan: I'm so glad that you [00:30:00] brought that up, Haley, because I think about that a lot. So I would say that one of the most empowering, healing things for me is writing these things that I put on these memes and knowing that they're public and knowing that other people know that I know that it's public. I don't know. It's like….
Haley Radke: And that they know that I know that they know that I know.
Ferera Swan: Because, like I said earlier, adoptees never asked for this. We didn't choose this path. And it has nothing to do with gratitude. It has everything to do with, you can't even fit it in one sentence, the loss and the grief. And so writing these things and posting them over the past few years have been incredibly healing and empowering. And yes, I've thought many times about it because you go through a range of emotions when you write these things. You [00:31:00] relive that emotion that you felt at the time of whatever event you're writing about. So if I'm writing about something that has to do with secondary rejection, I start feeling angry and I start thinking, How could they, blah, blah, blah, And so I feel that. And then I'll think, I'm gonna write this and I don't care, I'm gonna write it and I'm gonna put it out there. And then I've backpedaled, I guess you could say, thinking that maybe I shouldn't, I was in a bad place, I shouldn't have written that. Because I've written about my experience with what I learned about from this mutual person about my aunt, the thing that she had said that was very hurtful. She had shared several things with me, this mutual person, and so I had written about that as well, and then thought, Oh, no if they see this, there goes my chance, like you said.
That, there goes my hope. But I was just telling my husband this today and I thought, and if that's their choice, if I'm going to be rejected [00:32:00] again for speaking my truth and sharing my story and being honest, then that is on them. I've done nothing wrong by sharing my story from my perspective as an adopted person who was involuntarily separated from her mother and her family. It's my absolute human right to share my story. And I do it by way of memes. And I do it more and more now through music because I think that integrating creativity and art with social justice and change is important. That is what this is about. Because of adoptees just like recently, like right now actually, fighting for unrestricted access to our birth certificates and just all these things. And I think, fighting for our right to exist basically. I don't know. I think [00:33:00] everyone's experience is definitely different. I've heard happy reunion stories, but honestly, I hear a lot about secondary rejection.
Haley Radke: That's very common.
Ferera Swan: I actually didn't know how common it was until I started opening up about it. Until I discovered the adoption community and I learned I'm not the only one that this happens to.
Haley Radke: Back in the day, when I was attending university and working on my BA in psych, I worked at the library and I spent a lot of time there and I did a lot of research while I was reuniting with my first mother about adoption reunion. And one of the stats at that time– God, that was a long time ago–was, like, over half of reunions fail. And I was like, That's BS. It's not gonna happen to me. Right? Because you're in the honeymoon stage so it's like everything's happy. It just didn't even occur to me that things [00:34:00] could go so far south. Okay, that's a rabbit trail for another time. I want to hear you tell us about your name.
Ferera Swan: Ferera is a combination of both of my biological last names. So I've stuck an A behind. It's a mixture of the two. And then Swan is from the story The Ugly Duckling. I had a therapy session some time ago, like a handful of years back, and my therapist and I were processing adoption and these really intense, deep feelings that I have always grown up having and experiencing. And then she brought up the story of the ugly duckling and said, Oh, yeah, it's like when the swan discovers that…. I forget if it's a he or she, but the swan discovers she or he is a swan and not a duck. [00:35:00] I guess I had a breakthrough moment in that session. I just broke down and I was like, Oh my gosh. I didn't say, “Oh my gosh," but I was just quietly crying. I just had this moment of clarity and it was so empowering and beautiful. And my husband was there. And so I decided to, I guess you could say, rebrand as an artist. At the end of that year everything became Ferera Swan. And all of a sudden I was able to write about my adoption with no hesitation. I don't know, there was something about changing my name that really empowered me to use my voice. I think when I was under the name that my adoptive parents gave me, there was always a filter on how much I could say, how I said it, what I could say, because I'm this other person. It's kind of weird, but yeah, that's how.
Haley Radke: Thank you [00:36:00] for sharing that. I really wanted to get a chance to hear about your name because I knew you had chosen that. Is there anything I didn't ask you about that you really want to share before we do our recommended resources?
Ferera Swan: I think that reunion should be treated with a lot of care and a lot of empathy, as much as possible that one can provide for the other. And compassion. I just think that's unfortunately not the default place that we're in when we're navigating reunion. I know it wasn't for me, even for myself. That's all I wanted to add to that.
Haley Radke: All right. Thank you so much. Okay, so let's do recommended resources, and I have a whole bundle here because you're prolific. So first, I mentioned earlier that you love making adoptee memes and so I [00:37:00] love your Instagram. I feel like it's educational and sometimes poignant. It's a really nice mix. And, you mentioned you're a musician. I wish we had gotten a little more time to talk about that. You released a single called “Second Time,” which is about your story so I really want to encourage people to listen to that. It's on Spotify, and I'll link to all the places you can find that in the show notes. It's really powerful. I think people can really get a sense of your passion and emotion through hearing your voice in that song. I'm wondering if you can tell us just a little bit about your choice to speak the last 20-25 seconds of the song?
Ferera Swan: Oh my gosh. Thank you.
Haley Radke: If you would share that.
Ferera Swan: I said, "Oh my gosh," because I didn't realize that you've heard it. But first, thank you [00:38:00] for listening to that song. The last 20 to 25 seconds, I'll just share really quick, is the last line of the last email I wrote to my biological mother at the end of our–I don't know what you would call it–but at the end when we stopped talking, at the end of reunion. It was at the end of the email, and during the recording process I was working with Ramy Antoun. He's just amazing all around, but he used to drum for Seal. Anyhow, he had this crazy idea for me first to put a picture of my bio mother in the vocal booth and then to read the email that I last wrote to her.
Haley Radke: He just wanted to make you cry. Sorry. Carry on. I bet it worked.
Ferera Swan: Before I did the final vocals. So I'm actually singing quite differently, like when I listen to that song [00:39:00] it's different than how I normally would sing. But I was super in the moment, so I'm almost just sing-talking it. I'm not sure if that makes sense. But anyway, so I didn't know he was recording me when I was reading the email, and he kept the last snippet of it, stuck it on the back of the song and left it there. Which every time I listen to it now, I cry every time.
Haley Radke: Can you say it to us?
Ferera Swan: It was something about always wondering about, always talking of wanting answers. I was talking about the adoptee experience and then– Oh, no, you're gonna make me cry now. I can't. I think all I ever wanted to know was that I was never forgotten. And that was the name of her poem. So I used the [00:40:00] name of her poem to finish–I don't know, is that called a tag end? I don't even know.
Haley Radke: You're the musician. I wrote down: "I was truly never forgotten." Those are the last five words. Say it. Say it.
Ferera Swan: I was truly never forgotten. Yeah.
Haley Radke: What does that feel like?
Ferera Swan: I now know that I was truly never forgotten. I just think that it's heartbreaking. I can't imagine how painful it is for her to remember me this way though now, and for me to remember her this way. Remember in the sense of what we experienced in reunion and the relationship we could have had, and all the could haves. And it's not ever about regret. I just wanted to add quickly that from what I remember her saying there was a lot of not looking back: Don't [00:41:00] look back. Move forward in life. Don't look backwards. Basically, leave your mistakes in the past and move forward. And I think yes and no, though, because we all know that whatever we don't delve into trauma-wise, grief-wise, loss in ourselves, that is very much in our present.
Haley Radke: And no matter how much you just try to shove it down, it's going to come back. You know what? I've had a lot of therapists tell me that, you know. Yeah, in the last few episodes, so yeah.
Ferera Swan: Exactly, yeah.
Haley Radke: I'm being sarcastic, but yeah. That's true. Okay.
Ferera Swan: No, I know you get it,
Haley Radke: I do get it.
Ferera Swan: That's why I mentioned it.
Haley Radke: And if this is the first episode people are listening to, they're like, Wow, Haley's being harsh. But no, I get it. Stop shoving your feelings down, Haley. Okay.
Ferera Swan: It's hard though. [00:42:00] but I have empathy because it's painful. I don't think everyone is willing to go there. I think it's so that's why I think it's so tragic.
Haley Radke: Yes. The other cool thing, I don't know if you guys know, is Ferera has an Etsy store called Indigo+Swan. And you've got lots of really cool stuff. There's too many things to talk about but I wanted to highlight the adoptee mantra that you have. And I've talked about how a couple of different adoptees have some version of a similar expression that's really meaningful for them. It doesn't resonate with everybody, so I love that there's another one. Here's another one you can check out: Ferera's. I'll link to that in the show notes as well. But it's very empowering and, yeah, I really appreciate your words there. So I won't read it out. You gotta go check in the show notes for that. What do you want to recommend to us now that I've talked you [00:43:00] up?
Ferera Swan: I really would recommend J.S. Lee's book, Keurium. Actually, she has two books. I would really recommend Keurium and Everyone Was Falling, which is her latest release. And I would really recommend them because, one, I think for several different reasons but I do think Everyone Was Falling is definitely a necessary, a much-needed read, especially during the times that we're living in right now. It's just been so difficult, for so many different reasons, but I won't spoil the book for you, but I think that's definitely a must-read. And then Keurium is more adoption-focused, as well as on narcissistic abuse, which I have also been a victim of as well. And so I really connected to that book, and that book really changed…I mean [00:44:00] I was, like, bawling in bed at 2:00 AM over Christmas break when I read it. I was like, Oh my gosh. The last line just got me. So anyway, I would really recommend those two books. She's just a phenomenal writer, and she just really speaks to the hearts of all readers, I think.
Haley Radke: For sure, Jessica's amazing. I had her on the show, Episode 151, so if you want to go back, you can listen to her story and a little bit more about her writing. We talk about both of those novels. And I love adoptee fiction. We hear so many memoirs, which is awesome, we love adoptee stories. But to have an adoptee writing fiction that also sometimes has parts of themselves woven throughout, of course, it's really awesome.
Ferera Swan: Yeah. It's super cool.
Haley Radke: Yeah. She's amazing. Oh, my goodness.
Ferera Swan: And she's multi-talented. She doesn't just write. She's a painter. She does everything, so she does it all.
Haley Radke: I haven't said this anywhere, but I commissioned some artwork from her, [00:45:00] and we'll see that at some point, probably soon.
Ferera Swan: Ooh, how exciting.
Haley Radke: Yes. Yes. She's very talented. Okay. The last thing I wanted to drop just be- before we say where we can connect with you is I wish we had talked a little bit more about music and your work with that. Again, we'll send everyone to listen to “Second Time,” but also, I wanted to just mention that there's a playlist called “You Don't Look Adopted” that Anne Heffron curated, and it's all songs that adoptees recommend, that the recommending adoptee thinks these songs bring up feelings for them about the adoptee experience. It's a huge variety of songs. It's oh, my gosh, just hundreds and hundreds of songs on there. So I think it's so cool to go through and pick out things that do resonate for you. I, myself, have a bit of an adoptee-feelings playlist. And Alice Merton’s “No Roots” is on there. There's a lot of people who recommended Sarah McLachlan’s songs [00:46:00] because she is also an adoptee.
Ferera Swan: Of course.
Haley Radke: “In the Blood,” John Mayer. All those, you know the songs, but anyway.
Ferera Swan: Yes.
Haley Radke: I just thought that would be a cool resource to share as well.
Ferera Swan: That is cool. I actually didn't know that. Thanks for telling me about that. I had no idea. Is this on Spotify?
Haley Radke: It's on Spotify. “You Don't Look Adopted” which is also the name of her book and it's adoptee-curated, which we love. Okay. Ferera, where can we connect with you online?
Ferera Swan: So on Instagram, I'm Ferera Swan, and then you can also connect with me on my website, which is fereraswan(dot)com, and if you go to that site, you can find a bunch of different things like Instagram, iTunes and Spotify, YouTube may be on there, SoundCloud, some other things, but my blog is on there. So that's where you can find me.
Haley Radke: All the places. Wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing some of your story with us.
Ferera Swan: Thank you. Thanks [00:47:00] for having me, Haley.
Haley Radke: Thank you so much to all of the new Patreon supporters. If you are able to and if you want to say Adoptees On has had an impact, this is a really great way for you to support the show and to say that with your finances. Adopteeson.com/partner has details of how you can sign up and get the extra podcast every week, Adoptees Off Script, and I'd love to have you as a supporter. I can't do the show without you, truly.
And thank you so much for listening. Let's talk again next Friday.
