166 [Healing Series] Navigating the Holidays
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Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/166
Haley Radke: [00:00:00] This show is listener supported. You can join us and help our show grow to support more adoptees by going to adopteeson.com/partner.
You are listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I am your host, Haley Radke, and this is a special episode in our healing series where I interview therapists who are also adoptees themselves, so they know from personal experience what it feels like to be an adoptee. Today we are taking your questions all about navigating the holiday season. Let's listen in.
I'm so pleased to welcome back to Adoptees On, Lesli Johnson. Hi Lesli.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Hi Haley. How are you?
Haley Radke: Good. I feel like I should have a chart up on the wall and every time you come on, we'll just make another tick mark. I feel like you're our most requested adoptee therapist, so-
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Oh, that's [00:01:00] really nice to hear. I love being on the podcast and talking with you. And even though nobody else can see our faces, I can see yours and I always enjoy that.
Haley Radke: Me too. Sorry guys, it's not a video. I am so glad you're here. We are entering a holiday season again, and this has become a tradition that you answer some of our listener questions and steer us through some tricky conversations with boundaries and literally give us some language to bring to our hard conversations. But I'm going to start off with a general question for you because we are in unprecedented times, as they like to say. When we're recording this, we are almost a year into living this pandemic life. And what goes along with that is we have listeners who are all over the world who have different restrictions imposed on them, and it [00:02:00] follows that some of our listeners have family in different areas who may be taking this seriously or who may not be. Maybe their state has restrictions and some countries have none and so they're navigating those boundaries. And in holiday time we're talking a lot about visiting and do we travel there or not. So I'm curious how have you been advising some of your clients on how to navigate these things in pandemic times and do you have some conversation starters for us to say, Hey, we're not gonna be there for this holiday dinner this year because of COVID.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Right, we definitely are. And that phrase “unprecedented times,” it's definitely that. I'm talking a lot with my clients, and in the groups that I have, it seems to be the thing we're talking about right now. And in terms of [00:03:00] adoptees, I'm trying to help my clients gain their voice and try things differently and give themselves permission to do things differently. And I think that some of the restrictions that different states have and different countries have are helping reinforce that, helping reinforce boundaries if people are deciding that they don't want to travel, if they don't want to split their time between their adoptive family or their birth family. So I think in some ways, if people are struggling with that, the guidelines are offering kind of a cushion there.
Haley Radke: Wait a second. Wait a second. Are you saying we can blame the pandemic for the reason we don't want to go to our: insert whichever family there.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: I don't think I’d use the word blame, but it can offer a little bit more reinforcement around that decision. But then there's also people who are, I have a lot of clients who are new in reunion and were really planning to travel this year [00:04:00] and see birth relatives. And so this pandemic situation is really creating a lot of grief and loss for those plans and those visits and those connections.
Haley Radke: Yes. I have spoken to a couple of different listeners who had planned a reunion visit and that's been canceled and postponed and postponed, and the disappointment is so real. It's so real.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: It is.
Haley Radke: All right. We had a whole bunch of questions submitted. Here's a question from Lauren: “I'm in Reunion and realize that my biological family and my adoptive family have very different expectations around the holidays. I need help finding my way.”
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: That's a good question. I need help finding my way. Yeah, so again, the word conditioning comes to mind or just living with this belief that we have to go along, right? The adaptive adoptee, the good adoptee. [00:05:00] We can't disappoint people. And I think as adults and coming into our own, coming out of the fog and recognizing, wow we can actually make decisions that feel right to us. So finding that balance. So how does she make her way? I would ask Lauren, what do you want to do? What feels best for you and your family? And can you give yourself permission to maybe do something different this year? Create a new tradition that feels congruent with what she wants to do. And again, I said congruent, so creating something new that feels right for her. And that's not to say that's not going to feel uncomfortable, but just because something feels uncomfortable doesn't mean it's wrong. I think people mistake if they set a boundary and then they get some pushback from family, they might be quick to think, oh wow, this isn't right. But that's not necessarily true. Creating change and creating [00:06:00] healthy boundaries doesn't always feel comfortable. In fact, it rarely does, but that doesn't mean it's not healthy.
Haley Radke: It's so interesting that you were like what do you want? Because that sounds so simple, but Lesli, how many of us have literally never thought about that or have shoved it down and have just bent to the will of anyone around us to make them feel comfortable.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Yep. That's so true. I was talking to someone yesterday and we were talking about that exact same thing. You know, what do you want? Like how the person is someone who just goes along and has a hard time even identifying what he wants to eat for dinner, right? So practicing finding small things. What do you want? I want this for dinner. And it sounds silly, but that's where we start. We start identifying what we like, what we don't like, and then expand on that.
Haley Radke: This question really goes along with it. It's from Chris: “We talk a lot about finding our authentic voice. [00:07:00] How can I begin to be more comfortable asking for what I need, especially during the holiday season?”
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Yeah. And again, starting small, right? So really tapping into do I actually like this, or is it just something that I'm used to doing? Is this tradition something that I really enjoy? Or is it just something I'm used to doing because my family has done it our whole life? So questioning some of those things that have just been obligatory go-alongs and seeing if they still fit.
Haley Radke: I've seen a lot of families do this pandemic-wise. Towards the end of November, people were writing out okay, what do you really want to make sure we do this holiday season? Because many of our things that we rely on, maybe having that big family meal is not an option for us where we live right now. And I see the moms asking their kids like, okay, what's two or three things you really want to do? And that could be like, [00:08:00] oh, we really want to watch this movie and we really want to make this Christmas treat and we really want to go walk this street to see these Christmas lights or things. Are you suggesting that maybe adoptees could do that? Like it's pre-planning out to make sure you have your special holiday thing that actually is important to you and you maybe didn't realize it?
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: I think that's a great idea. Why not? So again, if we use this, and you and I have talked about this on an earlier podcast, but this idea of coming out of the fog and recognizing what's working, what's not? How have I gone along or adapted into my adoptive family that isn't healthy or wise for me anymore, and how can I make these small changes that suit me? And a lot of times people say that sounds so selfish, or that I could never do that. Okay, but that's where the work is right? To stretch some of these things where you think, oh, I can't, I could never do that. I'm going to hurt my adoptive parents or [00:09:00] that's just not how we do it in our family. And I guess that's how I really work with my clients. Is that still working for you? So part of coming out of the fog is understanding and uncovering which adaptations or coping skills or coping behaviors were necessary during childhood and adolescence, but which ones are outdated, that are no longer serving the person and maybe they're actually interfering with relationships and them living their most healthy life.
Haley Radke: Okay. I have another question that's really a challenging one. Some of these are anonymous, just so you know. I wanted to honor people's privacy, especially when we're talking about really hard things-
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Of course-
Haley Radke: “As if 2020 weren't hard enough, I have fully stepped out of the fog this year. I'm 41 and it's been a long time coming. Along with the other issues we're all facing, I'm drowning in uncertainty it seems on every front. My anxiety is sky high all the [00:10:00] time. And now with the holidays here, all I want to do is hide from everyone and everything. Things I loved to do in years past hold no interest for me now. And I definitely don't want to plan or lead these family traditions. How do I take a step back but not withdraw completely?” And so that's the end of the question, but I just want to let you know that I did message this person a little bit just to make sure they had some supports in place. Some of the language in there, again, I'm not a psychologist, it sounded a little bit like depression, some of those kinds of things happening, which are really serious. And what I was really impressed by is that they recognized it and acknowledged it. Okay. I'm going to go ahead and let you share your thoughts and answer her question.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Yeah, I agree with you and I appreciate you reaching out to this person and checking in. It shows your thoughtfulness and concern. And I think the holidays are often difficult for adoptees and non-adoptees too, right? So there are all these expectations of [00:11:00] how we should feel or what we should be doing and when that isn't our felt experience, that can even add to more despair. So I would say to this person, again, can you give yourself permission to, not necessarily, she or he says they don't want to withdraw completely, but can they lower their expectations of themselves? Can they give themselves permission to take a few steps back and let this year be different, right? It's already going to be different, likely anyway, but can they let it be different than years past as they're coming fully stepped out of the fog. And that's a difficult process in itself, right? Recognizing these both/ands of adoption, right? That grief and the loss that's inherent in separating a child from their biology and all the other things that come along with it. So I would say be gentle with yourself and give yourself permission to do something different and step away from those [00:12:00] things that are creating pain and anxiety,
Haley Radke: What advice would you give to someone who mentions she doesn't want to plan or lead these specific family traditions? It sounds like a heavy weight. Do you have advice about that? I know it often will fall on the mom or whatever traditional kind of family/gender-norm kind of things. And if that's just too much, how do you ask for help and what are the steps you could do to pass off some of this stuff?
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Yeah. Part of the question doesn't talk about this person's support system and does she have family and friends that she could be really honest with. I'm struggling. I've come out of the fog this year and I'm doing some really hard work and I just am not up to leading the holidays this year. And that could change, right? That could change as things settle, but I would encourage this [00:13:00] person to reach out to the support system that she has. And a lot of people, I'll mention this too, don't have a good support system, right? So I'm constantly encouraging people in our community to seek the support of our community. Adoptees On has a great support network around it. Adoptees Connect, other support groups, where they can really find people who are struggling as well, or it doesn't always have to be connecting around struggle. But in this case it sounds like that could be a really helpful support for this person.
Haley Radke: Yeah. And I think, I'm going back to the mom thing when Yeah, everything kind of lands on you. I think there's a lot of things we can do to be like, you know what? We're not doing it this year. And again, you mentioned there's a lot of things we're not doing this year. And so if you are asking the members of your family, like what's really the most important to you? There's some things that we do every year, Lesli, that nobody likes and nobody even [00:14:00] wants to keep doing. But we don't know that until we ask them. Like one of the things that's really changed in my family is holiday baking stuff. I used to make Christmas cookies. I used to do all kinds of things and believe me, the importance of sweet foods for my family has not changed. However, now I've diagnosed celiac and Christmas baking is not the same. It's a lot more challenging baking gluten-free. I'm still learning all that. And so I'm like, you know what? I'm just ordering from the gluten-free bakery and I'm not spending all that time and all that. And what is important to my kids is they love decorating something at some point. So if I buy a store-bought gluten gingerbread house kit, that's fine. They can make it in the basement with their dad and they can have that experience without me.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Yeah. So then I would say to you, so that's exactly it, right? You gave yourself permission to do [00:15:00] something differently and then what do you get from that? Time to do something different, something else, something that fuels you or connects you with someone else. But I think that's exactly it. That giving yourself permission to do something differently.
Haley Radke: The other thing I wanted to say is gift giving will often fall on one family member to gather it up for everyone. And that really could do with a conversation about community support, I think.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Exactly. And it's just funny how we learn these things. So baking was also a huge deal in my family growing up and it's something I really enjoyed and something I still do enjoy, but I'm much more deliberate about what I'm making. It doesn't have to be the 17 different kinds of cookies and where it's not even enjoyable. It's like I would just be on autopilot. Oh, I have to get these done. I have to get these done. Why? For who? I think that another [00:16:00] suggestion is to maybe allow this season to be one where you allow yourself to come off autopilot and really be intentional about the things that you want to do, which is exactly what you're saying, intentional about what you're going to bake, what dishes you're going to make, what traditions you want to continue, which new traditions you want to implement, who you want to see.
Haley Radke: I love that. Come off autopilot. Yes. Yes. And again, the pandemic, I guess we can thank that to really make us make these choices.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Coming off autopilot and really slowing down. I think that the pandemic has definitely caused or created the opportunity to be more intentional and be more deliberate and slow down.
Haley Radke: All right, here's our next question: “I have a very difficult relationship with my adoptive mother. She's elderly and relies solely on me to remain [00:17:00] living independently. Yet I feel I've always been a disappointment to her and don't measure up to the biological daughter she should have had. So I often try to disassociate and perform the home healthcare worker role, but it hurts and I find myself not wanting to be around her. With the holidays coming, she will join just my immediate family for those days, and I'm dreading it. How do I make it through without ruining the holidays for me and my family?” Ooh, that's really heavy.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Yeah, that is really heavy. And it sounds like this person has done a lot of work around recognizing the relationship with her adoptive mom. And she says she feels like she's always been a disappointment, doesn't measure up, and yet it sounds also like there's an obligation to have her mom come be there for the holidays with the family. So I guess my first thought is recognizing [00:18:00] there's going to be a beginning and a middle and an end to the visit, and what can she do during the visit to really take care of herself. Can she also enlist the support of her immediate family members, not her adoptive mom, but the other people in her family that maybe also recognize that she struggles here and how can they also be there to support her? But I would just really stress the importance of taking care of herself during this time.
Haley Radke: And there's another question that came in from Cindy that says, “I find myself sabotaging the holidays. Almost like I don't deserve to be joyful or happy. Why?” Woo. Self-sabotage. That's not a thing we do, is it? I don't-
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Again, if this was someone I was having a long conversation with, I would want to know, is this a theme in other parts of your life? But I think the self-sabotage or sabotaging the holidays, I wonder if that comes [00:19:00] from the core sense of self I think that some adoptees have, or many adoptees have, that just I don't deserve good, or there's something wrong with me. Again, those beliefs that develop from the early separation loss, early separation trauma of adoptees. Many adoptees share the core beliefs of I'm not lovable, I'm not worth it, good things can’t happen to me, it's not safe to trust. And how do those bleed into our lives, right? So if that's what's happening, if there's that core sense of I don't deserve to be happy, or I don't deserve to have fun over the holidays, that would be something to explore further if the sabotage is not just around the holidays, but around just life in general.
Haley Radke: Is there something that you do see adoptees doing or just people in general, around big moments like this? [00:20:00] For someone to recognize like, oh my gosh, you know what, I just always feel terrible at Christmas because everybody wants everything from me. And you go in having that attitude, and then it is awful and you just dread it. And every day sucks and it's all on you. And it's almost like the self-fulfilling prophecy kind of a situation. So how do you unhook that? How do you stop that from happening?
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: I think that it's similar. If that's the lens that you're looking at something through, right? That it's just, ugh, the holidays suck, or, everyone wants something from me. If that is the lens that you're looking at the holidays through, Yeah, more likely your focus of attention is going to be on those things that don't go wrong. Are there also things that are more neutral or positive? And can you bring your attention to those things? That can work with the brain in creating new experiences, right? Noticing I have these beliefs, but are there any parts of the holidays that have a more [00:21:00] neutral or positive feel? And can I bring my attention to those? It's really hard for the brain to hold something really negative and something positive or neutral to the same degree at the same time. So it's not about playing the GLAD game, it's just about noticing that our brain has a negativity bias. That doesn't mean that a person is negative. It's just based on our ancestors who had to constantly remember which animals were predators, which berries were poisoned, and they had to have that stick in their mind. And we don't have to do that anymore, but our brains don't quite know that yet, so we have to really work hard to notice that there are also a lot of positive and neutral things in our environment as well and intentionally bring our focus to them.
Haley Radke: Can you do that ahead of time or is that more like an in the moment kind of thing? Like you're, in the day and you're like, oh man, and you notice oh no, I'm being negative. Or is it more a plan ahead of [00:22:00] time?
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: I think there are ways to promote resilience in the brain ahead of time that allow for that flexible adaptive ability to notice when that negativity bias is present and then be able to shift attention. It's not about everything is rainbows and unicorns. It's just about working with our brains and so the thing that you could do ahead of time to promote resilience is, I'm a big fan of mindful awareness. Either formal practices or informal practices of intentional focused attention to promote the resilience and that flexible adaptive way of thinking and being.
Haley Radke: So could you plan ahead then either by setting a timer and being like, okay, when that timer goes off, I'm going to make sure to go out for a walk and have a recharge. Or if you're in the moment and you're like, oh I remember Lesli said something about focusing in on the moment and like [00:23:00] enjoying whatever. If you're at the meal and you're enjoying a certain food and you've coached us through some mindful things before. It sounds like there's a couple of different ways we can bring that in by planning ahead and maybe scheduling a couple of reminders or, oh yeah, I remember I listened to that podcast and Lesli said to do this-
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Yeah. I think also going back to the coming off autopilot, so sometimes if I'm expecting that, oh, this holiday, it's going to be this and that. And our brain is just looping in that sort of mindset of looking at it through the lens of this is, ugh, people are going to expect things from me. It's not going to go well. We're too far ahead in the future, planning what might happen. Or thinking about past years, yeah, that happened and so we miss any opportunities in the present where things might be a little bit different. So recognizing when we're too far in the future, lamenting the past, and can we bring our [00:24:00] attention just to something that's maybe neutral, just right in the present. And it doesn't have to be super positive, it can just be, oh, right now I'm really enjoying this cup of coffee, but right now I'm really enjoying my conversation with Haley.
Haley Radke: I like that you said it could also be just neutral. Especially because sometimes we are talking about someone who is really experiencing depression and having a really hard time and sometimes that's what we can summon up in ourselves. Okay. So this one, it's a short question, but it is a big one, and I think we're just hitting the tip of the iceberg on this one. So this person is a late discovery adoptee, and they're asking, “How does a late discovery adoptee even begin to get over the anger of being a kept secret?”
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: That is a very big question. A very important question. [00:25:00] And I would go back to, I guess the first thing I would offer would be to find community. Find other late discovery adoptees that can validate your experience, that can validate and share how they've navigated their experience. There's so many themes for late discovery adoptees that are similar to other people who were adopted, who grew up knowing they were adopted. But there are so many different themes as well. So I would say work with a therapist and also find community. You just did a great interview with Bernie who discovered very late in life that he was adopted and I think that conversation is going to be helpful to a lot of late discovery adoptees.
Haley Radke: Yeah, that was episode 161 and I've had several late discovery adoptees really connect with that. And they're really finding themselves online, building a community of [00:26:00] LDAs who, I don't get it, right? Like as adoptees, we kinda get a piece of it, you and I, Lesli, but there's a whole other realm to that.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Yeah, just the sense of betrayal and trust and yeah it's so multi-layered.
Haley Radke: And then, now this wasn’t asked, but I'm just going to make some inferences that a few late discovery adoptees I follow on Twitter especially have been talking about lately. Leading up to the holidays, and this has come out maybe a year, maybe a few years ago, and there's still this feeling of this kept secret and some anger underneath. And then there's probably still some expectations of connecting with family at the holidays where you may have some resentment of, rightfully so in my opinion, that they have kept this from you. So what do you think about that? Do you still go to those functions or do you still connect with people [00:27:00] out of obligation? I don't know, but I feel like navigating that is really challenging.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Yeah, of course, with awareness comes clarity. As you connect the dots of your story and you start to have more awareness and this clarity, this coming out of the fog, then you can decide. This is going to be uncomfortable, right? I really don't want to go to this gathering. Weighing the pros and the cons and maybe sometimes people will say they'll make the decision, they'll give themselves permission to not attend. But other times people will go knowing, yeah, this is going to be uncomfortable, but I'm doing it intentionally. So I know why I am doing this. I know why I'm going. It is going to be uncomfortable, but I'm doing it off autopilot. I'm doing it. I don't necessarily want to go, but I'm going to do it. I know I may feel A, B, or C, but right now this is a decision [00:28:00] I'm making. So it's not always deciding I'm not going to go because sometimes we do have to do things that are uncomfortable. And I think that's life, but it's doing it in a way like, I know I'm doing this because I feel obligated. It doesn't feel right. I'm still working on this. I'm still a work in progress. But that's what I've decided to do this year. So it's not always not doing something, but it's just doing something with clarity and awareness.
Haley Radke: Alright, the next question I have is: “My question is about extended adoptive family members. I'm just not very close with any of them, and my adoptive, paternal grandma's health has been declining over the last couple of years. How do I explain to my adoptive parents that large family events, they are online right now, but in person when we're not in a Pandemic, the large family events are triggering for me and that I don't have much of a connection with my extended family in general, so I likely [00:29:00] won't be attending any events in the future post pandemic?”
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: So when you read that question, I was thinking that this person wants, almost is asking permission it sounds like. So how do I explain to my adoptive parents that these events are triggering and that I don't have much of a connection and I won't be attending events in the future? I think this person is saying it very clearly right there and this person doesn't need permission, right? This person doesn't need permission from their adoptive parents. And this may be an uncomfortable conversation. They may ask questions why, but this is very clear to me, this is a very clear stance.
Haley Radke: Can we do something a little bit unconventional?
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Yeah, of course.
Haley Radke: Okay. So you pretend to be the letter writer and you're telling me, I'll be the matriarch who's not really impressed with what you're going to ask me, because I think the letter writer really [00:30:00] would love some language around this. And isn't the fear that the mom's going to come back and is going to say, What do you mean you're not coming to family events in the future? You can't just make this blanket statement like, you're not going to be coming. What? You can't do that.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: I don't know this family but that's why I said it sounds like this person wants permission that it's okay to say this to his or her adoptive family. And I'm saying of course it is. And again, we're talking about that setting a boundary isn't necessarily going to be comfortable, but doing something different sometimes means we have to sit with that discomfort. So there might not be an easier way to say this. And I think also what just came to my mind is oftentimes when we say things to, let's just say our adoptive family or our birth family, and we don't get the feedback or the validation [00:31:00] that we're hoping for, we think that we've said it wrong or we haven't said it clearly, or we need to say it differently. So it's because we're not getting that validation like, oh, okay, that makes sense. I understand that you feel you don't have much of a connection with your extended family, so that makes sense that you wouldn't want to continue. That would be soothing and reassuring, right? That we said this the right way? But when we don't get it, I think it's a mistake to believe that we need to say it a different way or we aren't being clear. That's something I hear so often. I must not have said it right, I must not have explained it right, or I need to figure out a different way to say it. And I don't think it's the message or the messenger. I just think that it's the person who's receiving the message doesn't want to hear that.
Haley Radke: So what would you say then in that moment? You've expressed your feelings, they are not having it, and then you [00:32:00] say, I appreciate that's how you feel. This is the decision I've made or what is the language? If we were role playing, what would you say to that? Just to stand firm and not go down some argument rabbit trail, but-
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: And again, I think that there's so much we don't know in terms of the family dynamic, but I think, I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm sorry that you feel that way, which is not an apology, by the way. It's, I'm sorry you feel that way, but this is the decision I've made. This is what is going to work for me moving forward. I can't keep going along with the expectations that don't feel right for me.
Haley Radke: Okay, that's good.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Again, I'm making this sound really easy and, believe me, I wholeheartedly know these conversations are really difficult.
Haley Radke: And then at some point during those, I'm assuming lots of these are happening by phone or I don't know, God forbid, another zoom [00:33:00] call, but you don't have to stay in the conversation. You've expressed yourself and especially if there's disrespectful things coming back or things that really are hurtful for you, you can be like, you know what, I'm all done now. You don't have to stay and keep having the fight when you've expressed what you need to. And I think there's a lot of fear in hanging up or saying, okay, I'm all done talking about this, but you are worth not being abused.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: And I always tell people there's no good information that's exchanged when people are at a 7, 8, 9, or 10. When they've flipped their lid, no good or positive information is going to be exchanged then. So yes, of course it's okay to say, I've said what I need to say and I'm going to go outside now, or I'm going to hang up now. And that's taking care of yourself. None of what we're talking about is easy or seamless or one size fits [00:34:00] all, but I think that the main theme is recognizing the places where adoptees, because of their early trauma, have just gone along and been conditioned to go along, to not create waves. And again, where there is that awareness of that tendency or that theme and the clarity around that and then being able to try things differently so that they're creating a different future for themselves.
Haley Radke: Well said. I really keep thinking about what you said, “With awareness comes clarity. The question to ask ourselves is, is that still working for you?” All of those things I think, answer a lot of the questions. And maybe you have some questions for Lesli, and they weren't necessarily represented here, but I think with some of the advice that she's given, you can really drill down to those questions and is that still working for you? And what do you want your holiday season to look like? I think it's okay for you to spend 10 minutes. It doesn't have to be [00:35:00] like this whole big thing and get out your journal. Just 10 minutes. What do I want to do this year? And then implement as you can during the pandemic year. Thank you so much for your wisdom, Lesli. I really appreciate it. And I know there's a lot of people going through challenging times in general and especially in our community right now. You have some really cool things coming up. So do you want to share with us a little bit about where we can connect with you and this really neat thing I'm taking part in starting in January?
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: Sure. And I just want to thank you for your wisdom and for your wonderful support and what you bring to our community. I think I've told you this before, but so many of my clients, the first thing they say is, oh, I heard you on Adoptees On, and Haley is so amazing and I've listened. I have someone I know that has listened to every single [00:36:00] podcast, and more than once, she's like on round three, which I think just speaks to what you're doing for our community. And I'm so grateful for you. And I always like talking to you. So I'm so excited that you're going to be part of, during the pandemic I was trying to think of ways that I could connect with more people than just one-on-one, and what I created was a virtual healing course for adults who are adopted, and it's called Come Out of the Fog: Rewiring Your Brain for Resilience and Joy. And it's a six week virtual course that is a combination of self-study with opportunities to meet on a weekly live Zoom call, and also connect in a private online, not Facebook, but a private online community. And I launched the first course in September and it was just a really incredible experience for me to see, primarily the community that was [00:37:00] formed. So that's a passion project for me right now. And our next course will begin Monday, January 18th, 2021. And you can find that information on my website, which is www.askadoption.com. So that's a great way to connect with me. Instagram: @askadoption and Facebook: Ask Adoption and Twitter: LesliAJohnson.
Haley Radke: Wonderful. I look forward to connecting there in January and thank you so much, Lesli. I get chill bumps sometimes when I talk to you because I'm like, wow, that is so smart. I’ve got to remember that forever.
Lesli A. Johnson, MFT: You don't have to remember it forever. You can just reach out.
Haley Radke: Perfect. Perfect. Thank you.
All right my friend. This is our very last episode for 2020. I want to thank you for [00:38:00] listening to adoptee voices along with me. It is a pleasure to do the show for you. I'm so honored that you want to hang out with me every Friday morning or whenever you're listening. I know I always say, Let's talk again next Friday, but I know you're listening on different days. But I have so many of you that do choose to hang out with me Friday morning. It's part of your routine and I'm so grateful for that. I want to let you know we are back with brand new episodes starting January 22nd, so we'll have about a month break and I am just honored that I get to do that and spend that time with my family. But in the meantime, if you are feeling like you might need a little more holiday support, I would encourage you to go and find the other couple of episodes I did with Lesli around the holidays. We have episode 126, and all the way back, you're gonna scroll back a long way to find episode 14, and both of those have some really helpful [00:39:00] tips for navigating the holidays. I especially love Episode 14, she gives us some very practical strategies of ways to take care of ourselves during some stressful situations, and so I'd really recommend that you check that out.
Okay. I want to let you know a couple ways you can continue to keep in touch with me. I am active in the Adoptees On Facebook group, which is accessible for Patreon supporters. So if you go to adopteeson.com/partner, there are details of which level gets the Off Script podcast and then the Facebook group and then a call with me. There's a bunch of different things you can access so you can check that out at adopteeson.com/partner. And I am on social media sometimes, and so if you look for me @Haley Radke or @adopteeson, you can find me there. Also, if you're holiday shopping, you can go to adopteeson.com/shop and find Adoptees On [00:40:00] merch, which is brand new and I'm really excited about it and proud of it. And I used a really amazing adoptee artist to make our winter graphic which has this beautiful bird on it, and I'm really pleased with how that turned out. So that's what I'll be drinking my coffee out of this holiday season. I again want to extend my thanks to all of you who have supported the show in many ways, whether it is by finances or by literally just telling one other person about the podcast. I appreciate that so much. It's a free way to help share the show. And if you want to give me a holiday gift this year, I would love it if you would leave a review for me in Apple Podcasts or wherever you like to listen. You can even leave a review for me on my Facebook page if that is helpful for you. That just helps other people find the show and yeah, it's a gift to me to read your words. I read all of them, nice or not. I read all of them and I appreciate so much your kind words. [00:41:00] Alright, so 2020 is a wrap. Thank you so much for connecting with me, listening to me, listening to my guests. I’m just honored to come into your ears and hang out with you. Thanks so much for listening. Let's talk again soon.
