306 [Healing Series] Money and Worth with Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC
/Transcript
Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/306
Haley Radke: [00:00:00] This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing stated on it either by its hosts or any guests, is to be construed as psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You are listening to adoptees on the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm Haley Radke. This is a special episode in our healing series where I interview therapists who are also adoptees themselves. Today's show is also special because it's our last episode before our summer break, and I'm gonna tell you all about our other summer plans and some exciting announcements at the end of the show.
Before we get started though, I wanna personally invite you to join our Patreon adoptee community today over on adopteeson.com/community, which helps support you and also the show to support [00:01:00] more adoptees around the world. Links to everything we'll be talking about today or on the website, adopteeson.com.
Let's listen in. I'm so pleased to welcome back to Adoptees On. I was gonna count how many times you've been on, but I haven't so many. You might be the most, you might have the most Adoptees On episodes at this point. Anyway. Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, welcome back, Marta.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Hi Haley.
Haley Radke: Have you kept track? Are we at double digits yet?
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: I think we're at double digits. I think I also have not counted.
Haley Radke: If you count Patreon. For sure.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: For sure. Yes. And there's some clips from the Patreon that are on the public.
Haley Radke: Oh, that's true. It's so true. So yeah, you're everywhere. Okay so speaking of Patreon, you come on pretty regularly.
We have a show once a month where we do Ask An Adoptee Therapist, and this was the [00:02:00] impetus for our conversation today 'cause someone submitted a question that kind of like. Lit off all the fireworks in everybody's brains because it just spiraled out into a bunch of different topics. The question was an adoptee finding out that she was not gonna inherit the same as her biological moms kept kids were, the will is different for her and the big feelings associated with that. And it just brought us all to thinking about adoptees and money. Like it's a big deal. Of course, everybody uses money and I'm curious what your first thoughts are on how does being adopted even shape our relationship with money?
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: I think the relationship, first of all is just an interesting one. I worked with a money coach years ago in Seattle, and that was when I was doing exclusively work in the eating disorders world. [00:03:00] And something she said to me in one of our first meetings was so impactful, and I still think about it all the time and I share it with clients.
The biggest difference between like substance abuse and because we can have addictive behavior with food and with money is you don't need to take substances to survive. You can cut it out of your life completely. But if you have an unhealthy relationship with food or money, you have to figure it out.
You cannot live without having a relationship with food or having a relationship with money. So sometimes there's also an interesting dynamic there too, around the food and the money. Like maybe we were restrictive in one place and really out of control in the other, or vice versa. I just thought that was an interesting way to think about it and I think I know you've explored that a lot on the podcast. I feel like our relationship with food as adoptees and our relationship with our bodies, and so yeah, money is part of that really complicated relationship with like our brain chemistry, [00:04:00] the spending and the saving and then yes, of course there's the really essential piece of that our lives started with money changing hands, and how does that affect how we feel about ourselves as commodified people?
Haley Radke: Can we pause there because I think that's one thing that a lot of people really don't think about. Being commodified and money changing hands, and whether or not it was a, private a hundred thousand dollars adoption so you could get the race of child that you wanted or a public, adopt from foster care situation where maybe the adoptive parent is the one receiving money. Like money is happening. It's happening in all the situations. Someone is profiting, [00:05:00] whether it's the government or the agency or the adoptive parent and oh my gosh, I've seen so many people talking about the adoption tax credits and it's just so where's the therapy tax credit for us?
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Then, of course tied into all of that in that moment and the money changing hands and like the salesmanship of the adoption agencies, like all of this really yucky pieces is also this idea that financially stable, quote unquote adoptive parents is such a piece of what makes them more qualified to raise us than our birth parents.
And I think that's also super complex because we do not all get adopted into wealthy families. Some families use every penny that they have, and then that child grows up with a [00:06:00] lot of financial difficulty and maybe even with the knowledge that like their adoption is part of what put the family into a rough financial situation to start out with.
And so I think there's this illusion that if someone has enough money to purchase a baby that they're a certain in a certain place. But I think as with all spending, right? Like we can all figure out how to spend a lot of money, that's not necessarily reflective of like how much financial stability or security we might have.
There are ways to get things that are out of your financial comfort zone. Out of your budget. I don't know. Words are failing me.
Haley Radke: I vividly remember talking with Renee from Saving Our Sisters. So as a charity that is promotes family preservation and helps moms in crisis get through that temporary time period of crisis. And I remember her telling me about [00:07:00] when she placed her son for adoption 'cause she was in a temporary financial crisis and then like later finding out. Like the differences in salaries between her, actually very well paying job and the adoptive family that adopted her son. And it was significant.
They were significantly lower. And I was like,
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: yes,
Haley Radke: okay. Like it's true. Like you don't know if you're like, you don't know where your child is gonna go.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Yeah.
Haley Radke: Okay, so coming to terms with the commodification of it all, most of us don't think about that till later on. And so do you think that's like underneath, like that we have some idea of that subconsciously that is affecting she's nodding her head at me. Yeah.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Yes. I, this is embarrassing story, but I'm gonna tell it because I think it's important. I had I think I had so much shame about it as a kid and so [00:08:00] much consciousness about it, and so much insecurity about my difference about being the only kid, like in my school, in my area that was adopted, that I weaponized, I turned it around, right?
Like we can often do whatever we're insecure about, we can turn it around and weaponize it. So when kids would tease me about being adopted or come at me about it, I would say you might not even have been planned, but I was bought and paid for.
Haley Radke: But I've heard that.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: I know it's terrible and I'm embarrassed about it now, but I just needed something to feel better about and I think because there was so much shame about it, I like switched the narrative on it to try to feel empowered in some way to try to feel chosen, right? As the story had been told, I was trying to feel, wanted and chosen and special when actually I felt discarded.
Haley Radke: Yes.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: And inhuman.
Haley Radke: Yeah, that's really profound and okay. So I've been [00:09:00] on, I've been on, I'm back on TikTok because I'm using it to work on my new show. Anyway I've seen a lot of videos worth people talking about that like from a fully positive perspective.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Yes.
Haley Radke: It's like you see it, but you can't see it. Like you're almost there. You're almost there.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Yes.
Haley Radke: But you don't wanna pop their bubbles. Oh.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: And then I think like how that unfolds over time, is this really sticky relationship with money as we get older, like the ways that money can be used as control around managing adoptees behavior starting, I think in like adolescence maybe with like control around allowances. If you step outta line, you don't get your allowance. And I think all of that, do some biological parents do that? Sure. But I think the way that it lands on us is different because money [00:10:00] already has this different weight around worthiness and so if adoptees are always like bracing to be abandoned, re abandoned, sent back, I think we're also bracing to be financially abandoned. And so these threats, I think they land different on us and create yeah, a complicated relationship into adulthood.
Haley Radke: This is what's coming to mind is this combination of that, the financial safety and the adoptee loyalty, so for people who don't know what that is, it's like you're obligated to be loyal to your adoptive family because of just those things, like as a teenager, are they gonna provide transportation for you? Are they gonna help you buy a car? Are they gonna help you pay for college?
If you start, you're probably thinking critically adoption about adoption [00:11:00] possibly. But if you start speaking out critically about adoption all of those things can be taken away.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Yes.
Haley Radke: And. I'm thinking of a bunch of different things. There's all kinds of scenarios, right? We see adoptees getting sent away to camps to change behavior becoming homeless, just kicked out. Like all of those kinds of pieces. So that can control and forced loyalty, whether or not that's really what they're experiencing. How do I put this? You know what I mean?
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: The choice is, ends up being for, I think a significant portion of us is compliance or a lack of financial safety.
Haley Radke: Yep.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: And that's a really brutal situation to be put in. And we all make our own choices around that. But yeah, I think I have known several adopted and trafficked people who are, who stay in [00:12:00] unhealthy dynamics because of the financial stability that it provides them. And I'm, I would never judge an adopted or trafficked person for whatever choices they're making that are safety based and they should not be in that situation to begin with.
Haley Radke: It's the yes and. It's like you're experiencing this, we get it. And you shouldn't have had to. Yeah. Okay. What are you seeing with clients? Have you have, do clients come and talk about money things with you?
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Absolutely. Again, I think to the, for the food link, like it just, it touches everything and I think money is so linked to care, right?
I think there's a lot of dynamics where the only care people experience from their adoptive parents is financial, and so it does carry that meaning. Maybe if there's not a lot of attunement or emotional connection, but there is this financial help, then it comes to mean so much and then there can be like a hyper fixation on things [00:13:00] and like expensive things and different things like that.
I think I see a lot of, yes in the addiction realm, like overspending, compulsive spending, and it's that like seeking of the pleasure and the soothing. I think even around like buying, if you've never had a parent cook for you. Buying yourself, takeout or delivery can feel like that. You're giving yourself that care.
And again, which is, that's certainly something that I go to when I'm feeling not cared for. That's a way that I will care for myself. But it, of course, there's a line it can get really out of hand. And of course we want that, right? I think what is self care that doesn't involve money. It's a short list.
And so even when we're talking about taking care of ourselves, there's financial decisions being made in all of that all the time.
Haley Radke: That's the self-care without money. That's yeah, that great point. Deep breathing, [00:14:00] sit in the sunshine. Go for a walk.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Hot shower. But you do pay that water bill.
Haley Radke: Yeah. Yeah, tell me how I know I have a teen son who really likes long showers. I've seen, I don't see the, I'm not a therapist, right? And I don't see clients, but I've seen so much of this in the adoptee community. Like I've seen the overspending the people who hoard just like total irresponsibility, and then also this piece of trying to be as successful as possible. And building wealth to prove worthiness.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: And the fear is woven into that too, right? With the scarcity mindset. Yes. I cannot have enough money. I don't, yeah, like you said, the hoarding, I don't wanna spend any money. And that's about a lack of safety. And again, this association that we have with that more money can buy you safety, which sometimes it very literally can, that's not a, [00:15:00] that's not a feeling, that's a fact.
And yes, I think that there, because I think we don't think about it this way because of adoptions often happening in infinite, early childhood, but there's time in those timelines in all of our stories where we were houseless, where we were family less and houseless. Where we had no resource and no stability, and so that's in there deep.
And so we fear that even if as an adult you've never experienced houselessness, you, you may still have that fear like coded into your DNA. And so in a world that we're living in right now where housing abuse of housing costs has never been worse. The last few years I have had so many clients be in really rough housing situations.
I've been in some rough housing moments in the past couple years, and it, the trigger vibrates all the way down to the primal wound so [00:16:00] quickly.
Haley Radke: I never thought about it. But you're so right. All the people who were, even infant adoption, sometimes there's foster care in between. I was at the hospital for 10 days before I ever went home. Like there is a gap.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Yes.
Haley Radke: For a lot of people. Wow. Sorry, that sort of, just one more of those great light bulb moments from you. Okay. So one of the things the question that got asked initially, I'm gonna read it out here, and it touched a nerve for me because I have a personal experience of I remember this vividly, and I don't know if I was in reunion yet or not, but I was adopted by parents that were just a little bit older. And so my parents always [00:17:00] were, seemed older to me than anybody else's parents. And they're around the same age as my maternal grandparents, just to give a sense. Okay? And so I remember asking my adoptive mother at one point. Growing up as an only child. They were already retired at this point, and I just said, do you guys have current wills? Do you guys have a plan in place? Just literally Marta, the only, I was just asking because I thought, man, they're getting older. Who knows? And it's on me. And so
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: yes,
Haley Radke: I just want like, where can I find it? I'd like to know your wishes. It's pretty basic, so
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: yes,
Haley Radke: I've talked, even when I was young married person, I used to joke around with our friends saying we should have a funeral planning party just because you never know [00:18:00] and let's talk about it. Let's normalize it.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Yes.
Haley Radke: I remember I told you, I always thought maybe at some point I'd work at a funeral home. I don't know, maybe when I'm older. Anyway, I asked my adoptive mother, do you guys have current wills? She went to 10. Just shut down. She was angry that I asked, and then it was like, we are not talking about this. And then she gave me the silent treatment for awhile. Which is the same thing that happened when I got my second holes in my ears. Ear piercing. Yeah.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Oh my God.
Haley Radke: Anyway, so that's why this question hit a buzzer with me because I was like, it's not scandalous to talk about wills.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: No,
Haley Radke: We should know. It shouldn't be a surprise. And yeah, it's not, I don't know. Okay. Let me read this question that was submitted. Can we talk wills? I promise I'm not money grubbing, but this has me livid. I found out that my [00:19:00] bio mom has left her kept kids everything, and I won't get anything when she passes. Where is the equality? This could break our reunion, frankly. What is the ethical thing to do in this situation? I don't even know how to bring it up with her without sounding like I'm counting her money and waiting for her to die. Am I the only one? Tell me I'm not crazy. She doesn't know I know. And I think she's hiding it because she knows it's not fair or equal.
So I don't know if you wanna reiterate your answer to that question. Or if we should just talk about wills and this situation where it's not necessarily fair nor equal and you find out by surprise.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Yeah, I think, at its core its not about the money. That being said, some people in these situations might really need again, right?
They might really need that resource. And so of course, maybe there is a piece of it, but I think emotionally, it's not about the [00:20:00] money. It's about am I a person to you? And so many adopted and trafficked people already feel so erased, right? Like they erase our birth certificates, like there, there's eraser from the beginning.
There's a erasure, culturally, socially, still about our truths, our stories. And so this is like yet another experience of am I not real to you? And I think whether we're talking biological parents or adoptive parents, it's still that trigger of am I a person to you? Am I real? Am I not worthy of being claimed? And of course, this is extremely painful to find out that you've been left out in any way.
Haley Radke: Have you seen people like, I've heard of this before, but like in an adoptive family where bio kids get one treatment and adoptive kids get [00:21:00] a different treatment. For example, I was just scrolling obituaries the other day again, showing my age and I thought there was one and it was listing off all the, the people that are still remain with us.
And then they're listed off the kids and then it said, and his adopted son so and and I was like, oh, wow. You even get an asterisk in the obit. Good for you. You got included but we know you're not equal.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: I think that yes, the treatment can go, I know we're talking wills, but I think it can start way before that. Like that biological kids get down payments for their first homes and adopted kids get to pay their own way through undergrad. Like I absolutely have seen those situations where the treatment financially way before we're even talking wills is completely different.
Haley Radke: What do you do? What do you do? Do you speak up for yourself? Do I don't even [00:22:00] know.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Of course, I'm pro using your voice and there are points where that's doesn't matter anymore. You know where people have already tried and there's a point right where we can't change the other people. So I think to go back to the wills piece, I think it's absolutely worth a conversation and trying to express the emotions first, the feelings first. This is how this landed on me. You know what's going. What's going on for you? I think with the birth parent piece specifically, there's an extra complex layer of whatever their shame is, right? Or fear, I think that birth parents can have a lot of fear about what their other kids will feel, not just about us returning, right?
Like that reunion moment and having to tell them most likely for the first time, like I had a pregnancy, I had a child, right? All of that. I think there's so much shame, but then I think that still courses forward in the dynamic and so I don't know. I'm wondering if [00:23:00] this birth mother felt like not able not that she thought it was right but maybe she felt unable to say not only all of this, not only have I lied, not only am I this, whatever the negative story is in her mind, but also now you get less because your sibling came back. And I don't know I just think it's a lot more complicated than just what we see on the surface, right? Or when we personalize it, it's just more complex.
And so can we ask in that moment, can you tell me about this decision? Because I'm hurting and I don't understand.
Haley Radke: It's so complicated. Because it's not just about your relationship with them either 'cause it does impact the others as well. Yeah. That's tricky. So tricky. So what would it do to someone if they really have [00:24:00] that happen? Where they're just excluded from the will and they had a good reunion for, 30 years, whatever you think you're in, everything's good. And you're just not.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: I think like this person said it, it could be a breaking point. It could, because it could be that painful, it could be that wounding.
I think it, it would bring in doubt, if it had been a quote unquote good reunion that whole time of, what has this all been and what do I really mean to you? Where do I belong in your life? Do I have a place in your life?
Haley Radke: Okay, so let's talk a little bit more, more about reunion. I remember early, an early on episode that you and I talked about this, and I don't know how much made it to air, but I think some of it did. But talking about reunion in international countries, sorry, for international adoptees who are in reunion, who may be asked for money from their adoptee, especially if they're in an impoverished [00:25:00] nation.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: So yeah, I don't love that language impoverished countries isn't sitting so well with me. I would prefer something like countries economically crushed under global colonialism and white supremacy because there is an intergenerational legacy of abuse that results in the financial hardships of these countries that most transnational adoptees come from that have been ex so exploited for whatever valuable resources remain. That also includes babies.
Haley Radke: Such a good point. Yes. Thank you for the correction. I think a lot of people didn't know that in South Korea, for example, like one of their main economic boons was international from international adoption, and if folks listen to, you haven't heard this yet, but the [00:26:00] episode that will be out just before this one, we're talking with adoptees who were adopt one was adopted from Chile to Sweden, and she's telling us about there were Swedish social workers that like lived in Chile in order to export these kids out to Sweden. A wealthier at the time nation, yeah. It's complicated.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: And I think it's easy to judge Korea for being the largest exporter of babies, and why were they in that situation in the first place? If you look further back in that country's history, there's a reason that they were in that position in the first place. And so the, coercion that we talk about with birth moms, like that all happens on a global level as well, on a country to country level. And so I would say that any country that has an international transnational adoption trade has been, has suffered under the weight of global colonialism in some way. [00:27:00] And so then if we zoom back into the individual real quick, what does that do to us? Transnational, transracial adoptees when we're in reunion and there maybe is financial hardship is suffering in our birth family.
Some of us don't have the means to help, and actually I think that's more concrete and can be simpler as far as, I just, I really can't help you. Where is it when maybe we can, but maybe we're not comfortable. Maybe we don't feel safe, meaning. How do you trust in the fact that if you don't give the money that the people will still be around and even if you give it freely, it's care.
We talked to us earlier in the episode. There's an association with money and care. So what is it as an adult, adopted, trafficked person to provide [00:28:00] care for people that did not care for you? And how do we make peace with that? It's just all extremely complicated. I'm moving through so much of this myself right now.
Having moved home to Columbia, my mother's health is not well. She has had a tremendously difficult life. She worked harder then maybe anyone I know sacrificed her body. That's what's going on with her health right now. Quite literally, like she sacrificed her body for years working on her hands and knees, cooking, sewing, sleep deprivation, like so many sacrifices just to keep my siblings clothed and fed. And now at this stage in her life, her health is so bad that she cannot work. How is that fair? What is she supposed to do? What am I supposed to do? Just watch her suffer. But also, I am a 38-year-old child, [00:29:00] free by choice woman that chose financial independence for a reason.
I have financial independence that my female ancestors could never dream of, and now I'm taking on this responsibility for my mom. Not all the time, but when she's with me, I'm 100% financially responsible for her and the emotions that have come with that, even though I have clarity of thought. And clarity of heart about what I wanna do.
That doesn't mean that there's not younger parts of me screaming and flipping out about how unfair, but what is the concrete solution? Sometimes there isn't one, and again, we're back to this injustice that I think is at the center of so many adopted and trafficked feelings of the intense injustice from the individual level to the community level, to the country level, to the global level, right? It just billows out and who gets [00:30:00] crushed at the center of it.
Haley Radke: I just thought we were just taking a really light subject. No, it's not light, but, okay. So we've really set up all the hard, the complicated, all the things for folks. How can we set up and build a sense of financial safety, abundance confidence with money decisions now, if those are things that we're struggling with?
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Yeah, I think also what was our financial education? What did it look like in the families we were raised in? Was there any, or was money one of those things that was not talked about? And again, I'm like still on injustice of course, because it's not fair that if you did not receive any financial education either in your home or in school.
I could also rant about that, how we, that's [00:31:00] not part of our education and even those of us sometimes with like advanced degrees, it was never part of it. No financial training, no business training. That it's, yeah. Like we don't have enough things to do around our healing, but I do, I would advise adopted and trafficked people to seek some education if you don't feel financially literate to seek out some education around that, whether that's like reading a book or listening to podcasts or hiring a coach or whatever that looks like. Because I do think we're at risk to have an unhealthy relationship with money and we deserve security and safety.
Haley Radke: What are like one or two things that we can do just as practice. I'm thinking like how do we teach ourselves that it's safe, we're in charge of it. [00:32:00] Those kinds of things even be it. Making with making decision making, just like how you were explaining your situation with your mom right now. Like how do you set yourself up for success with, okay, I know I'm able to do this and this is my boundary, any sort of things like that, little advice, things you can give on that.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: It's a little giant one, right? Do you know how much money you have? Do you know what's coming in and coming out? A lot of us have shame about even looking directly at those numbers, and I think technology makes it easier than ever to look away. If you don't want to, we just go click bing.
We click a button, or we like tap and it's all, and none of it's real. And so a first step, and this was my first step years ago when I did money coaching, is to look into the numbers, to literally sit and look at them and confront whatever comes up about that.
Haley Radke: Be in reality. [00:33:00] Let's welcome you to reality. Yep. Yeah. Okay.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Yes. Yeah.
Haley Radke: That's great. And there's so many things about budgeting and there's so many resources about that, that doesn't have to be anything adoptee related, but if you're struggling more in this area, I think it'd be a great thing to dig into with your therapist.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Absolutely.
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Take it to therapy and because there are so many emotions involved, and then I think my other advice would be my classic Marta advice, which is don't be alone with it too. Like I've had a lot of clients that have the big shame triggers around money. All these things seek support from loved ones. If looking at those numbers is overwhelming, can someone who loves you sit next to you while you do that and help you regulate your nervous system while you confront the reality of whatever's going on?
Haley Radke: I'm working on this new show and I'm about to need a bunch of [00:34:00] money, so it's really stressful to ask for people to help when you're so used to doing everything by yourself and being fully independent and just, yeah, it feels very difficult to ask for help. But.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: I think that's such an important piece. They're highlighting too, around the triggers around all of this, which is like if we do get ourselves into rough financial situations, like how much powerlessness comes up, right? And powerlessness is again one of those feelings that vibrates right down to the primal wound. And I think, we know adopted and trafficked or not. People can make really extreme decisions when they feel out of control financially. It's a high risk factor to have.
Haley Radke: All right, so we welcome you all to be in reality with us. Thank you so much, Marta. I really loved your original answer to this [00:35:00] question, so we're gonna cut it and we're gonna put it at the very end of the show.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Okay.
Haley Radke: For people to listen to so they can hear our hot takes.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: I don't remember what I said.
Haley Radke: Oh it was great, and I had some great observations too, so we both, we just both come out on top.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Okay. Great.
Haley Radke: Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't really remember either. But we're gonna, we're you'll, you're gonna hear it very soon, right away.
But first, I know you're doing lots of amazing things. Now that you have relocated and are doing all this online work, where can people connect with you, hear what's coming up for you?
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: So I do have a public Instagram now it's Sierra, S-I-E-R-R-A, dot speaks dot verdad, V-E-R-D-A-D. That's truth in Spanish. You can follow me there. And there's information on the groups that I'm running and probably will continue to add some more new groups this coming year, so stay tuned. That's a great way to just be in the know if you are interested in groups with me and my practice [00:36:00] email is also on my Instagram, which is also on the Adoptees On website, but that's martasierralmhc@gmail.com.
And I have three groups that are taking members. I have a wait list right now for a second cohort of navigating transnational reunion, a therapeutic support group for transnational adult adoptees, currently navigating transnational reunions where you travel back and forth and your heart is in two places at once.
That time is TBD, because I'm gonna wait till the cohort fills and get everybody's consent on a time, but a weeknight. Sometime between 6:00 to 8:00 PM Eastern Standard is probably generally where that will land. All my groups are $25 via Venmo. I also have room in my homecoming group that's a therapeutic support group for transnational adult adoptees currently living in their homelands or planning to move back either temporarily or permanently.
So that group is running, so that's Mondays [00:37:00] 6-7:15 Eastern Standard biweekly. The other one's biweekly as well. So I have room in that for new members. And then I'm starting up Liberation and Abolition Group. That's a therapeutic support group for adult survivors of adoption, adoptees of color, currently navigating the terror of trying to survive under empire who are oriented towards liberation and abolition in all forms. To be in community together and raise our voices against oppression. This is an affinity space for people of the global majority and an open process group. And that is Thursdays 6-7:30 Eastern Standard Time biweekly. Come join us.
Haley Radke: Okay. That is amazing. I love that you have those and so needed and the wait list, like of course Marta's an expert in all these things and I know that she can help guide many of you through as an expert through really challenging circumstances that you're navigating yourself and have navigated. So thank [00:38:00] you. What a gift to our community. Thank you so much for your wisdom, Marta.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Thanks Haley.
Haley Radke: What a pleasure to get to talk with you.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Always great to chat. Thanks, Haley.
Haley Radke: I've been waiting to ask you this question. This is my most anticipated question for you. Okay?
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Okay.
Haley Radke: Finally, someone said it out loud.
Can we talk wills? I promise I'm not money grubbing, but this has me livid. I found out that my bio mom has left her kept kids, everything, and I won't get anything when she passes. Where is the equality? This could break our reunion, frankly. What's the ethical thing to do in this situation? I don't even know how to bring it up with her without sounding like I'm counting her money and waiting for her to die. Am I the only one? Tell me I'm not crazy. She doesn't know that I know, and I think she's hiding it because she knows it's not fair or [00:39:00] equal.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: Ugh. Yeah I was glad to see this question too. I think that it, yeah. A lot of people aren't maybe talking about it like, I love the start, right? Can we talk about this?
Yes, we could talk about it. Of course. We could talk about it. And I think issues around inheritance on both sides, on adoptive and biological sides are huge triggers. Everybody has a lot of feelings about it. And the biggest, I think. I don't wanna say mistake, but misunderstanding about it is that it's about the money.
And I think because of that's why there's silence around it. And why people don't wanna talk about this topic in public or in front of other people because it sounds like it's about money. 'cause we're talking wills and we're talking inheritance, but it's not about money at all. If you're adopted, it's not even about the money. It's about belonging, respect, feeling seen, feeling acknowledged, mattering to the other people and equality as she said, and about being an equal [00:40:00] with whether that's other siblings or other family members, whatever it is. So I just, again, for anyone struggling with this, I just wish for you to wrap your feelings and compassion and shake that shame off because this isn't, it's not about money. Our feelings about money are linked to feelings about care. So it's a really emotional topic, truly. And I think, my advice and around bringing this up would be to go to, to stay in that, to stay in the feelings, not the why am I not getting anything, but why did you decide this?
Can you tell me about that? Because I feel really hurt. The impact of finding this out and finding it out not from you, is that I don't matter and, and I would just like to know a little bit about your thinking and your feeling around it. Versus why did you leave me out? Really going to like what?
Because as I often say when we're talking [00:41:00] reunion stuff it's so easy to make assumptions about why someone did what they did or didn't do, what they didn't do, and it's just can be a lot more complicated and most likely. Fear is driving decisions. So if this person really wants answers, what, how much curiosity can they bring to this conversation of, I'd love to know like why you decided this, if you can tell me a little bit about it.
Because I feel really hurt and I feel really confused and really overwhelmed and I don't wanna feel any of those ways. But the impact of this on me was feeling like I'm not as important as your other kids. And. I am gonna imagine that's not how you want me to feel. So can you tell me a little bit about why you did this?
Haley Radke: Also sometimes when we hear secondhand information, it's not always accurate, so I'm not saying that in this case, but.
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: No, I love that. That's a great point Haley. Is this true? That's a great place to start.
Haley Radke: Yeah. People love stirring up drama when [00:42:00] bio or adopt,
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: especially around this topic too. Yes.
Haley Radke: Sure. Yeah. And if you have a falling out, maybe you won't get anything like,
Marta Isabella Sierra Cifuentes, LMHC: yes
Haley Radke: it's a, you don't always know what people's intentions are.
Okay, friend. This is our last episode until we'll be back in September with brand new episodes for you. In the meantime, there's lots of bonus content over on our Patreon, which also will be still going through the summer. So if you wanna join us for a book club, ask an adoptee therapist, our adoptees off script parties. Just come. We would love to have you. It's, we're a good time, I promise. And if you think I can't filter myself on the main feed here, you'd be surprised of the things I say on off script. I'm surpris, I'm surprised of the things I say on off script. [00:43:00] I would like to share with you my exciting news. I'm actually not taking a vacation this summer.
Instead, I am full in working on a brand new podcast. You may have heard me talk about this show before the hopes and dreams for this project. You have likely heard me talk about why I make you know, biweekly episodes instead, it's because I've been working on this project in the background for all this time.
Which has meant a lot of brainstorming, connecting with people, team building lawyering, all kinds of logistical adulty things, if you will. I am so excited and passionate about this project. I believe that it's our turn to tell everyone about [00:44:00] adoptions impact on adoptees and birth first parents, and so we are making the podcast to do just that.
If you want to stay informed and up to date on what we are doing, you can go to onadoption.net. It has a newsletter, sign up. And we invite you to join our newsletter list, you'll be the first to know if we're looking for guests, you wanna be a part of it. If you're looking to get involved in some way, the opportunities will first show up on that newsletter.
And we also have our social media going on Instagram @onadoption. I hope to bring you many more great updates, but right now I'm in the midst of recording with some very special mothers who've placed child for adoption [00:45:00] and they are bearing their souls and it is really difficult work and so important, and I can't wait to be able to share this with everyone because it's so deeply important.
Family preservation is just a deep passion of mine. I know it is of many of yours. And so we also are starting a new nonprofit that's called Adoptees for Family Preservation, and we're gonna tell you more about that soon as well. So many huge things happening. Thank you for being a part of it.
And whether you're supporting Adoptees On Patreon listening to the episodes, sharing them with your friends, any of those things, you are helping this ecosystem stay alive and well. And I thank you for it. Thank you for prioritizing [00:46:00] adoptee voices. Thank you for listening. Let's talk again very soon.
