309 Megan Hunter, MBA
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Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/309
Haley Radke: [00:00:00] This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing stated on it either by its hosts or any guests, is to be construed as psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You are listening to adoptees on the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm Haley Radke. It is such an honor to bring you today's guest, Megan Hunter. Megan is known as the conflict influencer and is the co-founder of the High Conflict Institute. We get to know Megan's personal story today, including her reunion.
Megan shares about how she first connected with her birth mother about a gut wrenching experience with her biological father that resurfaced an adoptee wound, and she offers us advice in navigating new reunion relationships, including both the complex and the beautiful [00:01:00] sides. Before we get started, I wanna personally invite you to join our Patreon adoptee community today over on adopteeson.com/community, which helps support you and also the show to support more adoptees around the world.
We wrap up with some recommended resources and as always, links to everything we'll be talking about today are on the website, adopteeson.com. Let's listen in.
I'm so pleased to welcome to Adoptees On, Megan Hunter. Hi, Megan.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Hello. Hi, Haley. Hi everyone. Thanks for having me.
Haley Radke: What an honor to talk to you. I'd love it if you would start the way we normally do. Would you share some of your story with us?
Megan Hunter, MBA: Adoptee story business. I'm usually doing business podcasts, so, or conflict podcasts. So that's what I'm used to talking about.
Haley Radke: I know we're going to the personal today. How about that?
Megan Hunter, MBA: Not the personal side. Alright, we can do that. I was adopted at the age of two months. [00:02:00] So my biological parents are, they were, you know, last year of high school, senior year, and the relationship didn't last, and I was born in September.
So what would've been their. I guess their freshman year of college. So they chose to place me for adoption and I guess I went to a foster home for a couple of months and I was told it was a wonderful one. And then I was adopted by some really wonderful people in Nebraska. So I grew up on a farm. And had two, I had an older sister who was my parent, my adoptive parent's, natural child, and then they'd lost two children before she was born.
Very tra you know, sadly with some heart problems. So they had her, she also had the heart problems, but she survived it. And at that point, I think they were like. This is too painful to try to have more children. You know, genetically, there's obviously something wrong, but they wanted more [00:03:00] kids, so they adopted a boy and then two years later adopted another boy, and then two years later adopted me.
So I'm the youngest of four and grew up my whole life knowing I was adopted, which I'm so grateful for because I know a few people who didn't know for a long time, and that's just been a painful journey for them, or painful new piece of news too, to absorb and assimilate. So yeah, I was grateful for that.
And I'm sure there'll be lots of, lots of questions about the whole, all of it. But I guess the, the fast forward part is in my twenties, I was about 24 or 25 when I was flipping through television stations and I just, just flipping through, you know how you, so you're like on something for two seconds before you flip to the next thing.
At least back in the old days. I don't even think we do that anymore.
Haley Radke: No. You just like, look up what you wanna watch and there it is. Right.
Megan Hunter, MBA: I just realized that. Yeah. Right.
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA: We used [00:04:00] to do that. I, I mean, like I grew up when we didn't even have remotes so ancient, but, so I'm flipping through. See, I, I lived in Nebraska, but we got Colorado news stations and networks and things, and there was a Colorado news, a TV sh, you know, news show on, and I just caught in those two seconds adoptees.
So I went back to that station and they had this story about Colorado had just opened their birth records to adoptees for six months. You had a window. And so I followed up, I'll followed through and I think I paid $125 or something very, very nominal for. They assigned me to a intermediary who had access then to whatever records were available, and she tracked down my birth grand maternal grandmother and that led her to my biological mom, birth mother.[00:05:00]
I told her, you know, like I didn't have any expectations of ever, ever meeting anyone, but I, I was interested in medical information. I mean, I was honest and authentic about that, but, so she did write me a letter back and gave me, you know, some medical information, but there were no names or any identifying information included, and I didn't expect it.
I didn't give her mine. And then about three months later, after a couple of letters, maybe the intermediary called and said, your birth mother would like to talk to you. So, I don't know, within a day or two we were on the phone and this thing I'd been, you know, thinking about for 25 years was suddenly happening.
I had this, this, the, the dream, the fantasy, you know, that we all create in our head about who they are and what they look like and all that. Well, I was born in the Vietnam War era. I knew my bio father had gone into the military, [00:06:00] so I, in my fantasy mind, he was dead. I just thought, you know, Vietnam. So that was my story.
Well, it turns out he was very much alive and still is. So, so I got to, I got to meet him first, and he didn't have any other children. I was it. And then I met my birth mother. Probably sometime in the next six months or so, and she had four kids that were born after me and three daughters and a son. So I've gotten to know all them and then her husband and you know, now it's been over 25 years. So I have some experience now.
Haley Radke: You do. You so do. And because you're an expert in conflict resolution, you have all these skills for sure. Now that would help I'm sure, in difficult reunion situations. How about when you were 25, 26, 27 and those difficult things come up? [00:07:00] Can you remember anything that was particularly challenging?
Megan Hunter, MBA: At the beginning, I was just in my twenties. I think I was just full of life and exuberant and it was like, oh, this is great, you know? So I just kind of accepted. I was very accepting of everyone and I wasn't cautious. At all. I just went full in like, oh, this is so exciting. And so there wasn't conflict in the beginning, I would say took about a decade for the skeletons to come outta the closet.
You know, it was kind of like we're all putting our, our best foot forward, you know, in our shiny faces. And as we all know, in every family there's some skeletons somewhere and some conflict. So when those things came up, I didn't necessarily know how to handle them. Well, and I, I wouldn't say I was in the conflict, but I just had funny feelings.
Haley Radke: Hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: So on my, my bio dad side there was, there was no conflict [00:08:00] me with anyone, but he and his siblings had tons of conflict, and so I could step back and watch this from afar and it's like, yeah, this is great. I don't have to be in it. Birth mother's side of the family, you know, they had their dynamics, their sibling histories and all of that, and again, I wasn't part of it.
So when they had big conflict, I was still this outsider. Now in my adoptive family, loads of conflict, high conflict. So I, I finally reached a point where I realized that when you come from an adoptive place and you know, all these families, plus I'd been married, had that family, got divorced, got remarried have family. You have a lot of family now, and I realized that with every family comes that some of those skeletons, some of that conflict history, you know, drama and it can be too much. I [00:09:00] felt overwhelmed because there was too much drama in many of the families, most of them. So I think as an adoptee, that was really challenging for me. Even though I could step back from some of it, it still affected me. So if you want me to focus on. A back breaker of a conflict. I can do that.
Haley Radke: Well, as you were talking, I was thinking like sometimes we are the skeletons in the closet when we come back and find, right?
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah.
Haley Radke: And so
Megan Hunter, MBA: I was.
Haley Radke: Yes. Did your siblings know about you on your maternal side? No. So they have to just, mom has to share that secret.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yep. She'd never shared with anyone. Except her mother.
Haley Radke: Yeah. Yeah. That can be so difficult in relationship. Just that.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah. And she's a very private person and I'm a talker, you know, and I'm exuberant and she's very private and quiet. So that was, was difficult, but it was [00:10:00] so kind that she did share this information with her family and they accepted me completely open armed.
Haley Radke: Hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: And I have wonderful relationships with a couple of my sisters, and there's just, that's been just a highlight in my life.
Haley Radke: Oh, I'm so glad for you, Megan. That's wonderful. Yeah. Okay. I mean, you, you, you gotta share the doozy because, you know, we're all waiting to hear. You're like, Haley, you have to ask that. I will, I will.
Megan Hunter, MBA: A little, little teaser there. Yeah, and I, I, I'm willing to share this because I think as adoptees we do deal with something different than non- adoptees and I, I think it's at a cellular level. So on my birth father's side, like I said, there was a lot of conflict in that family, and if they would get together for a gathering, it would last a day or two. And then like there's a blow up and then they're making booking tickets to go fly home immediately and that kind of thing. I would go [00:11:00] visit my paternal grandmother. And I realized I could handle about 12 hours before I felt exhausted and kind of overwhelmed and like needed to get outta there, right?
So you know I had probably known him 15 years or so, and my bio dad called me, he lived several states away, and he said, you know, for my mom's 80th birthday, I'm gonna fly to where she lives. Surprise her and tell her we're gonna hop in her car and we're gonna drive to see you. And stay with you for 10 days.
Exactly. That must have been the look on my face. I'm like, okay, God, I can do anything for 10 days. Right. I can be charitable, I can be generous. I have a big house. We can, I can make this work. I'll just do it. Right. So it, you know, we're, eh, first three days are okay. And then it just, things kind of started feeling weird and like they'd kind of disappear and wouldn't say [00:12:00] they were going anywhere and they'd be gone for hours and hours.
It was just, I don't know, just no communication. And I would start to get that feeling again, of just being like, run down and at the edge of falling apart, but I'm strong. I got this, I can do this. So we were going to have a we hosted in our home like a, a weekly like marriage Bible study for married couples on Monday nights.
So I told my bio dad and his mom about this and I said, look, you don't have to come. I'm not trying to proselytize, but it's something we do in our home. If you'd like to come, you're welcome. If not, no problem. She said, no thanks. He said, yeah, please come get me in my room. So I went and got him in his room.
When it was time we walked down the hall together. And right before we got to the living room, he said I gotta get something. I'll be right back. So I thought, well, I must need his glasses or something. I don't know. Never came back. Never did come back. So [00:13:00] afterwards, I sent my son down to the bedroom.
So what, you know, to find him. And he's like, he's not there. He's not in the backyard, he is not in the front yard. He's gone. He's just not there. Odd, right. We looked, we kind of waited, just wasn't there. So the next morning I just woke up at 5:30 in the morning, and which isn't normal. I usually, it's like 6:30 or seven.
And I immediately had this thought, they're gone. I woke up my husband and I said, honey, they're gone. What are you talking about? They're, they're gone. I know they're gone. No, they're supposed to be here another three or four days. They're gone. I got my robe. Walked down the hall, they were gone.
And I think as an adoptee that ripped the rug right out from under me. You know, there's probably a lot of, a lot of variables there, but you know, in birth family in all of this. But [00:14:00] I guess I didn't know what was gonna happen. So it wasn't necessarily like a big conflict, it was just they were gone. So my husband's said, let's, go to breakfast.
So we went to this restaurant and we sat on the patio for probably three or four hours. And I had, which from the outside probably looked like a nervous breakdown.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Or a psychotic break. I would just sob and weep from my core over this, probably abandonment.
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Right. Even though I didn't even like this guy that much, I didn't like his mom that much. Why is it affecting me so deeply? I would just, I would weep from the, I mean, guttural, ugh. It was horrible. And then that, you know, I'd go for a while and then I'd start laughing hysterically. So like I said, crazy lady. But that was my reality that morning. And I think looking back, you know, it's been 15 years better ago now, and, and I realize that my belief is in some of [00:15:00] us, based on our temperament, our DNA, our life experiences and all of that, our biological family, our resilience, you can have that rug ripped from under you and not, not real, just you have no idea its coming. You don't know it's there that you can get hurt deeply, even by people you don't feel like you're even that close to.
So that's my big conflict story. Not that I, I mean, it, it just ended with me setting limits when, when they called that night because word got around quickly to a cousin who called an aunt, who called him on the road. So he called me and I was of course upset and I, I just said, look, I never wanna see your mother again, and I'll let you know when I'm ready to talk to you. And I must have sounded pretty fierce what he heard. It was, I'll never wanna talk to either of you again.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Right. So we have healed things since then, but I'm pretty cautious. Then fast forward [00:16:00] to about six years, five years ago, my little grandson's first birthday party. Now I've let these folks back in my life again.
He and his wife, they wanna come out for my first grandchild's first birthday. Great. Come on out and we just finished the dinner and you know, I'm an excited Nana, I love my little grandbaby and its first birthday and oh, the cake and the good to the presents and all that. So we'd finish the dinner, we're sitting at the table and just waiting to, you know, get the table cleared and we're gonna have the cake and presents and things.
And he looked at me, he said, I just wanted to let you know I went to our lawyer and took you out of our will.
Haley Radke: At the party, he said this to you?
Megan Hunter, MBA: Mm-hmm. Now, as an adoptee, I never had an expectation of being in the will in the first place.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: 25, 30 years ago, he, out of the [00:17:00] blue, told me he put me in his will. Okay, great. Thank you. So now the expectation's there. You don't even think about it again, you've forgotten about it until someone, the person who gave life to you tells you, lemme rip that rug out from under you again. So there we were again, and I was much stronger at by that point and had been in therapy. But I still think there's so much about being adopted that at least for me is at a cellular level.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: I don't know.
Haley Radke: How long did it take you from your setting the limit after that first disappearing act to engaging with him again?
Megan Hunter, MBA: Mm, it might've been over five years.
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah. I was just, I was just, I've never had anything like that. Just, I just, I could feel it in my cells. That's all. That's the only [00:18:00] way I know how to, to, to describe it.
Haley Radke: Well in this behavior, I'm telling you, something inflammatory at a public celebratory occasion is like, this person just really wants a scene or something like that is so wild. What a choice.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah, it's like just no really low social skills, I think. And you know, I, I don't think there was bad intent by it. It was just, you know, the explanation the next day was you know, your husband supports you and you have your own company and so you don't need anything from us. Well, that's true. However. The underlying part of this is the human part. Yeah. You know?
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA: And maybe in a different setting, said in a different way. Like, hey we've had this conversation and here's what we decided to do. We just wanted to let you know. So that was my [00:19:00] experience. And after then, after that. Like he, the look on my face must not have looked great. He saw that, noticed it, blamed his wife for everything, and then took off out of the house.
Like I told you, conflict, they run. Well, they rode with us in our car, so we had to come back and the next day we dropped 'em at their condo and the next day they, they said, hey, we we're, we're not feeling well today, you know? And then they contacted me the following day. I had lunch with them, brought my daughter along who they hadn't seen yet, and I just kept it surface and pleasant. And when he went to the bathroom at the restaurant, his wife looked at me and said, are we okay now? And I said, no. What I've learned from this is you can have too much family.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Which probably wasn't the nicest thing to say, but it's the only thing I could think in that moment.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm. That's so real though.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah, it's a lot. It's a [00:20:00] lot to carry.
Haley Radke: So a lot of people, we, we even did a whole series on adoptee estrangement, and so a lot of people are choosing to go this route now. And I know with your expertise, like you help people navigate really challenging circumstances and especially with people who are high conflict, really difficult people.
And so do you have a, a line or, or things that you tell people about, like, listen, if you see this, we really gotta. Yes. Safer to break ties, or if these things are happening, I could help you work through that. Like, do you have something like that that you could share?
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah, we do. I mean, it's, we do work with a lot of people in really tricky situations, whether it's adoptee, I mean, it's. Infrequently adoption related, but it's, you know, high conflict, which is a, a kind of a pattern of an, an individual with a [00:21:00] pattern of doing a lot of blaming and having, you know, really extreme behaviors, unmanaged emotions, and very all or nothing in their thinking. And it's just kind of how they approach life kind of unconsciously, like an operating system so they can wreak havoc on their close relationships and even relationships at work, but especially in intimate relationships and parenting and families, siblings, all of that. So the people that come to us are usually often in times in despair. Like, I'm in a deep dark hole and I don't know what to do. I don't know how to get out.
Everything I do is a misstep. I'm wrong. I'm blamed, I'm scared, I'm frustrated. I'm exhausted by the chaos. So what we help people do is just understand, first of all what high conflict looks like and then they start to get this first like kind of brick in the foundation of, okay, I'm not crazy. And then it's kind of understanding what's happening with this other [00:22:00] person and accepting that this is who they are and I'm not gonna be able to change it.
Therefore I have to change how I approach it. So we do have, you know, communication skills we teach, which is, you know, using what we call EAR statements when they're escalating, complaining, blaming, give them something a little with a little empathy, attention, respect, little EAR. And it, it helps really connect with the reactive part of the brain and helps them kind of helps their brain get regulated more, gives them what they need before you have a conversation or get to what you need to, like, if you have to have a difficult conversation, you're gonna sprinkle a little EAR in it whenever the other person's upset, escalating, blaming, going all or nothing or any of that.
And then we have other little techniques. We have writing techniques and things too, but a big part of this is setting limits and with high conflict people, [00:23:00] you really have to have this balance of, of giving them empathy or respect. Some need respect more than empathy 'cause they'll manipulate you with your empathy.
And then a balance with setting limits, they don't stop themselves and so you kind of have to give the gift of setting limits and what that really means bottom line is I'm going to do what I need to do. Because if you think about it, we're typically doing what the other person wants us to do and we're afraid to assert what we want.
But setting limits, having boundaries is doing or saying what I'm going to do, I'm going to leave this room now if you don't stop talking to me in that way. And if they continue, I'm leaving the room now. So there's those, little, you know, things that happen in conversations, but then we go to the bigger picture of making decisions about that relationship.
And that's one that takes some time. And you know, in these [00:24:00] tricky reunion type situations, you're blending different cultures basically on an intimate, most intimate level. And sometimes gonna work great as you know. And other times it's going to be tricky and sometimes you're, oftentimes there's gonna be a, a pretty negative situation that you find yourself walking into.
So, you know, I like to say, remain cautious for a year at least. Tread lightly. Be observant. Look for the red flags. Don't make any promises. Don't get too close, too quickly. Stay as arms length as possible for the first year or so, and then you can make decisions from there. 'cause I don't know you today, but I will.
I will know you and I'm gonna know that you're okay. Healthy enough to be in a [00:25:00] relationship with or not, or somewhere in between. And that's how far or close I'm gonna have you.
Haley Radke: That's really good advice. So difficult to follow through in. Especially for
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yes ma'am,
Haley Radke: you're meeting your birth mother for the first time. Your fa like, it's the draw, the lure of like finally getting to know someone you dreamed about for and had all these stories about. It's so difficult.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah,
Haley Radke: and I really encourage people to have a, a competent therapist to walk. Them through this time to help press the brakes for us. 'cause we can't, it's, it's really difficult.
I was gonna say, we can't do it.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah.
Haley Radke: I mean, we could, but it's hard.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah, it's hard. I like, listen, I'm old now. I'm a grandma, right. So I have a lot more experience and wisdom and missteps along.
Haley Radke: You sure look old
Megan Hunter, MBA: in my 20.
Haley Radke: Just for people who can't see you, like. [00:26:00]
Megan Hunter, MBA: Filters help, trying to stay looking young. But, and the good thing is my voice sounds young, which is nice. So the people that can't see me think I'm really young. But when I was in my twenties, when I met everyone, you know, I was just, I, I didn't have any of these skills. I didn't know, I was just happy. Let's, you know, ah, it's gonna be great.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: It's like a Odie in Garfield, just ha ha ha. So it's a, it's a journey.
Haley Radke: Well, and I think you kind of alluded to this, but this deep-seated fear of like a re abandonment, I think is in a lot of us. And so we will say yes to a 10 day visit, even though, or like really, right, we'll say boundary crossings all over the place just to keep the peace.
And, and that that comes at our costs. Like it's, you know, and so I think with, you know, lots of therapy and maturity can come, the ability to set those [00:27:00] limits, like you were saying, but it's hard won.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah, it is. And, and you do, I mean, I'm really glad you, know, say out loud, get some competent help to go through this. I really didn't have any, I just. Just was fumbling along. And then over the years, you know, since then, finding lots of issues within my adoptive family too, and having that family cut me outta their will. So kinda, I know, I don't know, too many people have been cut outta the will twice for two different families. But here I am.
Haley Radke: You're just too successful. Like what?
Megan Hunter, MBA: In a way which does, you know, not to be, you know, narcissistic or conceited or anything, but I think there's some, issues of that in one family, not so much in the other and none in the other, but. Yeah, you have to, you just, you need help 'cause you have to, it's, these are really [00:28:00] challenging, difficult situations that can take a toll on your self-esteem. And you can really take some, some big hits. And there are things I just didn't understand, like why am I looking like a psychotic person on the patio at Gooding? You know, back and forth and swinging all over the place.
And, you know, and I, I've been to therapy and, you know, I help a lot of other people, but at, at the same time, I was experiencing this myself and I couldn't get a grip on it. I just couldn't understand it. So I think that for me at least, that seemed like that comes from the deep down adoption stuff, is there are things we are doing ourselves, we just can't understand.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Why am I feeling this way? Why am I doing this? Why? So for me, it finally kind of came together when, you know, I had to make some tough decisions in my life about my adoptive family [00:29:00] and just some really heavily unhealthy things there. And it was okay for about three days after I made my decision.
Tough. I'm strong. I've got a great husband. I have great kids, all this. And day three, I was like, wake up, woke up and I always felt like I was falling apart, like I felt a little crumbly and I called my husband at his office about 10 o'clock. I said, I've never not had a family before. I don't know how to do this.
I don't know if I can do this. He hops in his car, drove home from his office, 30 minutes, sat me down at the table, my calm, cool, collective, super sweet husband, and he looked at me and he said, don't ever again let anyone hold your self-esteem, value, or happiness in their hands. That was it. I was over it. I was fine, and I've been fine ever since.
It's been years. There's something in that that I guess. I don't know [00:30:00] if it's just my temperament that I didn't have that strong self-esteem or know who I was or was adoption part of it. I don't know, but it sure helped with all of it.
Haley Radke: Hmm. Thanks for sharing that. I don't know if you're comfortable talking about this, but I know your a mom and you have a big family, extra, extra step kids now, and you've got, you know, lots of people to love who all are influenced when we're talking about reunion, right? It's,
Megan Hunter, MBA: yeah.
Haley Radke: Trickles down. So in the difficult times, how did you talk about these things with your kids, you know 'cause I'm estranged from my adoptive parents also and it's, rare, but every once in a while, one of my children will be like, ask about the grandparents they barely remember anymore 'cause it's been a number of years. Right. And so having those conversations with them and also trying to make sure they know I'm not gonna go anywhere, you [00:31:00] know, like I'm here.
Megan Hunter, MBA: True.
Haley Radke: And also they know their mom is adopted and I was separated from my parent. Right. So. So it's really complex to have these conversations with our children at whatever age or stage it's sort of happening. Do you remember having anything like that with yours?
Megan Hunter, MBA: Probably not in such a thoughtful way as you've just said it, I think. Honesty is always a great policy. And I think that came from my parents always telling me I was adopted. So that's just kinda carried through my life. I think being authentic can't hurt.
So I think if you've raised your children with that secure attachment, that's the foundation. And then you can be honest and, and you know, depending on their age. But just asking them, you know, when mommy, if something came up and you say, you know, if when mommy goes to the store, does Mom come back? Yep.
Well, I'm always gonna come back for you. I'm always here. You know? So I think it's just [00:32:00] repetitive information like that and action, and it can be words or it can be your actions. Right. It's just, it's just being there. So did I have that conversation? Hmm. Not so much. I would probably whined and complained it too much, but they were older.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: You know, but even things that I probably took missteps or screwed up with my kids, I've been able to kind of repair that, you know, in adult life. And I'm just very vulnerable and transparent with them and they experience changes that I'm going through that are pos, you know. All changes, I guess. But I'm always working toward positive growth and development and they feel that.
Haley Radke: I bet.
Megan Hunter, MBA: And now they're pretty healthy for the most part. And they make decisions about people in their lives. They're very supportive of me. I've been very much, don't be a take sides person. If you wanna have [00:33:00] a relationship with any of the people that I don't have a relationship with, that's your choice.
I will respect that and support whatever you decide. If something becomes unhealthy and I see it, I might bring it up to you, but it's gonna be up to you. It's your choice. And I think through that, that's taught them to make their own choices and they are healthy choices because of that.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: The bad part of it, the negative or the negative side I've seen is that when I kind of did a walk away from my adoptive family. Then one of my children kind of wanted to distance himself from his brother, my other child. And I, you know, I keep saying, don't do that. You can't do that. We gotta keep our family together, we gotta keep ourselves, you know, and his comment was, well mom, you know, look, you walked away from your family. So kinda have to weigh those things.
And [00:34:00] role modeling is really important. And I think for me at least, it was trying to avoid being all or nothing and, and saying, look, I'm putting a pause. I've walked away, but it's a pause. It may change in a couple of years. I don't know yet, but I'm gonna do the right thing. I'm taking right steps, and if I learned I've taken a wrong step, I'll try to make a right one the next time. If this relationship is meant to heal, I'm open to that. So I think it's just figuring out as you call.
Haley Radke: Yes. Okay. Well said. Thank you. Is there anything else that I, I know you've sort of dipped your toe in with the adoptee community or with the NPE community, I know you've gone even presented at one of the conferences.
And is there anything that you see in adoptees that, especially related to your expertise in conflict that we should learn about more or advice for [00:35:00] us? Anything like that?
Megan Hunter, MBA: Well, first of all, I was really surprised at the first conference to see that it was, there's so many, and it was, you know. In the old days it was just adoptees.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Now it's all these other non-parent event, I don't know, what are they? Embryo donors and all this, all that other stuff. And now
Haley Radke: This is the Untangling Our Roots conference that we're talking about. Mm-hmm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah. And then people who, you know, were one of 60 children from a sperm donor and just, it's grown so much and there's, you see the same desires in no matter what circumstances you came from and the people I've talked to that have like just found out, let's say they're my age and they found, find out dad's not my dad, a bio dad. It's really interesting to see how deeply that cuts that they've been lied to. They're 55 years old and they found out I'm not Jewish and I thought I had, you know, Holocaust [00:36:00] survivors in my family and now I find out I'm not even part of that family and that's their thinking.
So. I think, you know, obviously people listening to this are, maybe have gone past that already. I don't know. But I guess my words of caution would be to be cautious because there are people who are not healthy. There are people who may take advantage or they might have a really wonderful outcome.
I've talked to some who thought they'd found their biological parent, and then it turned out it wasn't. Now they've built and established a relationship with that person and then find out, oops, that wasn't him. Now another hurt. So I just think you have to be cautious. You don't have to be afraid or live in fear, but just get with that therapist, get with somebody that's walked this journey. Get with a good friend who has a very objective perspective and take your time. There's no rush. [00:37:00]
Haley Radke: Yes, definitely, I mean. Huh. I should say sometimes people feel a sense of urgency depending on how old they are when they search those kinds of things.
And that also can make us make some foolish choices, so.
Megan Hunter, MBA: That's true.
Haley Radke: Yeah. As much as you can. I totally agree. Take your time and have, have someone walking alongside you if you can.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah. And if I can just say one thing real quick. This has probably been kind of heavy for people. It's just reality. I'm very much about reality and being authentic, and if it helps someone, I hope it does. There's also some really great stuff that's happened in my life and I have these two sisters, half sisters, and we vacationed together this summer. I look in their eyes and I see my eyes, and those are, as you know, it's really cool when you finally find someone that looks like you or they talk like you or they act like you or you find you have these common traits and, [00:38:00] you know, wonderful, wonderful relationships. And I'm, I'm very fortunate that I've, I've been blessed with like some great humans in my life. The only downside with that is there are four siblings in that family, and two are on the out, way out, and two are in. And so when I came into it, it was three sisters and me, and I was considered a triplet with them.
There's twins and then I was, I was so much like them. They called me their triplet. Well, those two twins don't talk anymore.
Haley Radke: Mm.
Megan Hunter, MBA: And that was another loss for me was feeling like I'd lost now the sisterhood because of that.
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA: But you know, as a grownup, you have to accept those things and.
Haley Radke: Man, it's complicated.
Megan Hunter, MBA: It's complicated.
Haley Radke: Well, I, I'll share with you before we do recommended resources. I'm in Reunion for over 12 years now, and I also have siblings and was at my youngest sister's wedding earlier this [00:39:00] year, you know?
Megan Hunter, MBA: Oh.
Haley Radke: So you get to reclaim some of those special moments that perhaps you missed growing up with them. But it's pretty amazing to build those relationships now as adults.
Megan Hunter, MBA: You got to be at the wedding.
Haley Radke: I did. Yes.
Megan Hunter, MBA: That's amazing.
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA: That's so amazing. I love that. Oh, that's so good.
Haley Radke: Yep.
Megan Hunter, MBA: So good.
Haley Radke: Well, I am just, I have too many things that we could keep going on, but you have so many resources available for folks. In fact I know you have a number of books out, and so I was like, I don't know what. I should order to like prep for an interview, but I ordered one. 'cause I'm like, I'm gonna give this to my friend soon as we're done.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Oh,
Haley Radke: okay. It, I, I ordered High Conflict Co-parenting Survival Guide because my friend
Megan Hunter, MBA: Nice,
Haley Radke: not funny, but is in that very situation and so I was like, oh perfect, I can give this to her. And I was listening to your show. You have a podcast called It's All Your Fault, High Conflict People, and you have so much great [00:40:00] advice, Megan. And I saw you present at, not at one of the conferences, but I think you did a, a little event for Right to Know, and you were talking about the BIFF method and, and those kinds of.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Oh, yeah.
Haley Radke: I won't, I won't say what those things are. I mean, people can go and read and listen to those, but like, you give so much very practical advice and I love that. It's super helpful just in your day to day, right? Because we're adoptees, but we're humans and we live with people,
Megan Hunter, MBA: right?
Haley Radke: And all those things. So I hope folks go and check out all of those things. Is there anything in particular you wanna direct adoptees to in all of your, like, there's so many things. We'll link, we'll link to all the things, but there's so many things to mention.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah, we do have a lot. So the, we've just in the last month or two launched a new platform called conflictinfluencer.com and it's for 18 years, we've been training professionals, like lawyers and judges and psychologists and all that, how to deal with high conflict clients, litigants, [00:41:00] HR, all of that. But you know, we discovered there's just a lot of people dealing with high conflict in their personal lives and they're confused by it and they're really tired.
So we launched this platform to help anyone. So I would say that's probably a pretty good resource where to start, all the books are on the website and there's a class I teach called Conflict Influencer and it's like a six week class. It's really pretty inexpensive. I am notorious under pricer, but I just want people to get the help and, and get the support from the rest of the group and things like that. So that's always running and there's little classes and courses and all kinds, and the podcast is free. You know, that's, that's always on. And my co-founder, Bill Eddie, who's just absolutely genius, brilliant. He's the one that came up with BIFF and EAR and all these things.
We recorded two episodes today and we're recording another, so we're always answering listener questions and all of that.
Haley Radke: It's really helpful like for folks who are like, Ooh, I kind of wanna know more of that. Like, [00:42:00] seriously, it's not like one of those shows where you sort of skim the top and you don't ever get to, they're like, buy this course. So then you can really know, like you share all the things.
Megan Hunter, MBA: I probably have a problem. I don't even know.
Haley Radke: Oh, I'm sure someone, someone out there would tell you to pay wall some of that, but no, I'm really thankful. I have the same thing, right? Adoptees On free for all, for, you know, hopefully forever in the will. And I think it's important, you know, like we have these stories and this wisdom, you have this expertise and I think it can bring peace to so many people, you know?
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah.
Haley Radke: So thank you. Thank you for sharing that and for sharing some of your story with us. What an honor to hear the personal, so we are best to connect with you then online?
Megan Hunter, MBA: So probably conflictinfluencer.com.And my last name is Hunter. So I'm Megan Hunter on Instagram. I think it's like Megan Hunter official or something, and I can give you the links, but I have all [00:43:00] kinds of social media that I never use, so you can find me at conflictinfluencer.com.
Haley Radke: It's because she's out there teaching people. You're at conferences, you're presenting to businesses and traveling the world. Yeah.
Megan Hunter, MBA: Yeah, exactly. Trying to hold it all together and make good decisions and have good relationships all at the same time, but you're doing the same and it's, you know, really, really important work you're doing. So I'm, I'm really grateful for that. It's, it's needed.
Haley Radke: Thank you. Thank you so much.
I don't know if I gave this the biggest sell in the episode, but you would not believe the difficult situations that Megan has helped folks navigate. She is like this amazing mediator [00:44:00] and truly, I have learned so much from their podcast. It's so, so good. Even in just day to day of how you, you know, interact with people online or if you're gonna send that email, you know following their method of how to write things is just really helpful and practical. Am I repeating myself? Anyway, I hope that if you have been struggling in a relationship with someone that's really, really difficult, that you do go and listen to her show and look up some of those resources that they're offering because it's so helpful. Super duper helpful.
And, you know, we kind of talked around this a little bit in the episode, but reunion can just be so fraught. You know, everyone brings all their own baggage to the table, and you have this idea that you're going to like meet your [00:45:00] family, and we're gonna be so much alike and everything's just gonna go smoothly.
And that is just fake. It's not real. That is unrealistic unless everyone participating is actively working on themselves and working on the relationship and being really communicative and open it it just doesn't go the way the you know, reunion shows show you the, the, we used to call it reunion porn. Do we, are we still saying that? Anyway, so I hope that if this is you and you're in the new stages or you're thinking about searching and that you, do slow down and you get some support 'cause it's very difficult stuff. I really appreciate you listening, and I, I'm so thankful to each guest that shares their expertise and lived experience with us.
It's just a [00:46:00] real gift to be able to share these conversations with you. If you wanna keep hearing more Adoptees On, you can partner with us and go to adopteeson.com/partner and sign up to support the show on Patreon. We would love to have you there, and thanks for listening. Let's talk again soon.
