330 Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.
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Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/330
Haley Radke: [00:00:00] This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing stated on it, either by its hosts or any guests, is to be construed as psychological, medical, or legal advice.
You're listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm Haley Radke. Today, Deanna Shrodes returns to share the remarkable story behind her new book, Finding Mr. Greek, about searching for, finding, and reuniting with her biological father, Gus, when he was 91 years old.
We talk about the precious time they spent together, the peace she found in finally learning the truth, and why she felt called to return to writing and adoptee advocacy. Before we get started, I wanna personally invite you to sign up for my podcast newsletter, which you can find at adopteeson.com/newsletter.[00:01:00]
We wrap up with some recommended resources and as always, links to everything we'll be talking about today are on the website adopteeson.com. Let's listen in. I'm so pleased to welcome back to Adoptees On my friend Deanna Shrodes. Hi, Deanna.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Hi, Haley. It is so great to be here. I, as love and respect you so very much and watch and listen to everything you do and I'm just so grateful to be here.
Haley Radke: I have to tell you, one of my most disappointing moments this year was almost getting to meet you in real life.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Oh my gosh, me too. I was never so upset when I had to cancel that. I was never so upset.
Haley Radke: We'll make it happen another time. But you're back. Yes, we will. Oh my goodness. Okay. So I've had you on this show in 2019 and then again in 2023, and in 2019 we really talked about your first reunion with [00:02:00] your birth mom and how that went.
And then we talked about, in 2023, we talked about how you found your father after your birth mom took his name to the grave, and that story is so incredible. We did two whole episodes on it.
And now you've written it all in a book called Finding Mr. Greek, but would you catch folks up just in case they haven't heard those, which I encourage folks to go back and listen to you share the whole story and read your book.
But just give us a little glimpse into that part of your story, would you?
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yes, absolutely. I was in relationship reunited with my birth mother for many years. At the time she passed away it was 20 years. And we had known each other all this time, and she had been very resistant to telling me who my father was.
All I knew was that he was Greek. Later, DNA would prove that to be true. I knew that he was [00:03:00] 100% Greek. I knew that he had black wavy hair at one time, and I knew that he wasn't supportive of her. And she told me 10 years prior to me finding him that she was never going to tell me who he was. And I said, he has to be at least 80 by now, probably dead. What's the harm?" And she was resistant. She let me know she was never gonna tell me. And then very shortly after she made that declaration, she became terminally ill, and she passed away in just a few months of cancer, and I was devastated. I had done all the DNA tests. It was even more depressing. Yes, it showed I was 50% Greek.
It also gave me very little Greek matches. I was just in absolute devastation, and as a person of faith, I was praying about this. I was literally fasting about this. I was reaching out to friends to help me. I had developed a search team that met on Facebook. It was a private search team called Finding Mr. Greek, and we were endeavoring to find my father. I'm a very deep person of [00:04:00] faith, as and at one point, I literally prayed for God to tell me my father's name, and amazingly, one day as I was praying about it, He dropped this name into my mind and said, "Your father's name is Gus." I know that sounds nuts to most people.
I figured it was gonna sound nuts to my search team because some of them are not people of faith. Nevertheless, I have great friends, and they helped me. When I said I wanna search for a man named Gus, they were on board with it, and we looked for a man named Gus 10 years younger to 10 years older than my mom just to have a 20-year stretch And we did that, and we would search for people that were in the area back in the 1960s in Richmond, Virginia, and we would search for them, and then I would call them if they were still alive or their family members, if they were dead, and I would ask them to take a DNA test to see if maybe we were connected, and that didn't work for any- anyone.
And then we brought in the search. We were looking for a man by any name who was Greek, who was in the area at that time, and we searched high [00:05:00] and low all over the world really for the next 10 years, and nothing. And then finally on May 11th, 2022, I got a very close DNA match of a first cousin.
Then we noticed that it was a, an X match and we had a high enough centimorgans there where we could figure that it was through his mother. And fortunately for us, his mother only had one brother, and we were absolutely stunned to find out that the man's name was Gus. And not only was his name Gus, but he was still alive.
He was 91 years old. He was still living in Richmond, Virginia. He had never gotten married, and he had never had any children, and I was his only one. And to make an extremely long story a little shorter, I connected with Gus within 24 hours on FaceTime. He immediately opened his arms to me. I pretty much did, in this case, have the fairy tale story.
He immediately opened his arms to me and was just even weeping and asking me how soon I could come. We met very quickly. [00:06:00] We began bonding very strongly, and he immediately accepted me into his life. It was really like every adoptee's dream who's searching, really. I realize I was, like, just so totally blessed.
And we connected, and he was not well physically. He was actually in a nursing home. He had taken a really bad fall three months before and was even, debatable as to whether he was even gonna live. He was only found because his doctor had done a wellness check. And so it took a couple months to stabilize him, and then he was put in a nursing home, and Adult Protective Services was in charge of him when I found him.
And then we were just bonding very strongly. I was flying there constantly even though I work full-time. I was... I would literally do an event for work and fly to Richmond and spend even 24 hours with him and then fly back and then go back to work. And I would bring my work with me and stay for days and just work, at the little tray table at the nursing home alongside him, and this went on for months.
And then we realized that this... first [00:07:00] of all, I'm not a millionaire, so flying back and forth constantly, it was just not really financially doable, and it was unsustainable to just keep up this pace of continuing to go back and forth, but we wanted to be together very badly, and we didn't really know how long we had.
We didn't know how long that he would live. So I went through the process to have basically almost custody, so to speak, over my father and to bring him home with me to Florida, and I brought him with me to Florida to live for the rest of his life. And we had all that time together until he passed away on December 6th of the same year.
So I'm so thankful for that. It's a miracle story. I always say it was better than Disney, and I still wake up every day pinching myself that this actually happened to me and that I could be so blessed as to have this type of not only knowing who my father is. I was thinking I was gonna find a grave and maybe an aunt or an uncle or a brother or a sister who could give me a picture of my father and tell me a [00:08:00] few things about him. I never imagined I would have what I did.
Haley Radke: I still teared up through you telling that story even though I know how it ends. I know I know parts of- ... parts of the middle, parts of the beginning.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yeah.
Haley Radke: And it's just like- It's what we all hope for, many of us hope for.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: It is. I know.
It's just, it's miraculous. It really is. It's miraculous. So miraculous that, everybody was telling me during that time period, "Write a book," and all that. I would do these little small paragraphs on social media and put them out there and put videos of us. Sometimes Gus and I would do videos together, and people loved it, but I wasn't interested in writing during that time anything extensive 'cause I wanted to spend all the time with him that I possibly could.
And it didn't really go that way because the social media posts were going places, even just those little tiny posts. And then, of course, David Begnaud and CBS News heard about it. They came to our house to spend three days with Gus and I. [00:09:00] Larissa MacFarquhar from The New Yorker came for three days to spend time with us, and then it made its way to everywhere from People Magazine to Woman's World to just so many other places.
So I'm really thank- I just... It doesn't even do it justice to say that I'm thankful for it. I wake up every day just so thankful to have known my father and to have had this opportunity.
Haley Radke: The last time you were on the show, he had passed several months prior, I'd say. I don't remember exactly, but say six months prior.
And, grief, they talk about stages of grief, and I'm wondering where you are now after several years have passed in mourning Gus and how you process that.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: It's different. Of course, it's not... I don't really believe we ever, quote, "get over," just like we never, quote, "get over" adoption.
I'm not over his [00:10:00] passing. I've moved forward, but it won't ever be something that I'm, over. I'm so thankful for even a brief time. I realized in real time I have no regrets. I realized in real time that we were limited. Of course, I always wanted more time, but I would literally write out questions.
I would write out questions, and every night I would ask him those questions and even record us so that I could always remember. Tons of questions, Haley "What was your favorite movie growing up? What's your favorite color? Tell me what elementary school was like for you. Tell me what middle school was like for you. Tell me what high school was like for you. What are your favorite sweet treats? What are your favorite meals? What are your favorite restaurants?" Just on and on. "What were your difficult experiences in high school? What do you wish you would've known then that you know now?" I just drilled the questions because I didn't know how much time we had, and I just wanted to know absolutely everything.
So it's helpful for me in grieving [00:11:00] that I don't have regrets. I asked him absolutely everything I could think of to ask, and we just loved each other every day. A lot of people during that time would say, "Aren't you angry? Is it hard for you to forgive him?" I chose... another decision that I think I made right was I chose to not get caught up in that in the moment.
It's not that I gave him a free pass and never asked him anything hard. I did ask him hard questions. But I chose to not get so wrapped up in that I couldn't enjoy him and enjoy the time we had together and to ask him all the questions I possibly could and to have a relationship. So I realized that I could process a lot of these other things like forgiveness after he was gone, but I was only gonna have this one chance to build that relationship and to ask him the things that I so longed to know and to bond with him and that I could process a lot of the other stuff later.
I'm a big believer in [00:12:00] therapy, so I go to therapy. And that's been very helpful to process a lot of the things that didn't make sense, a lot of the things that were hurtful, a lot of the things that were unfair. As I was told over and over again by my maternal biological family that they know nothing.
And even some of them were even very crass, saying, "Don't ever call us again," or, "Don't ever ask us anything again." Like as if... and I would wonder, "Okay if you know nothing, why are you so sensitive? If you know nothing, why are you so angry?" Like you're very defensive with me for a person that knows nothing.
And then as I shared on the last show that I did with you, I, in going through old boxes and records, I found proof that Gus had asked about me and that he had reached out to my maternal family and that the very people that told me, "We know nothing," they did know something. And so I had to work through all that.
I had to work through all those feelings of anger and not allow them to turn into bitterness and hate and allow me to become a person that I don't wanna be. So [00:13:00] there's a lot of things that are wrapped up in that grief not only of being separated from Gus for 56 years, but grief of the fact that people did lie to me.
People did know who he was. People did know where he was. And there was a lot more than just grieving that he's dead. I was grieving the overall picture. He didn't even know I was adopted. He thought... He explained to me and other Greek relatives explained to me that a lotta times Greeks don't, and it, just like in certain other cultures, they don't always give up their children, they will give them to a grandmother or an aunt or someone else in the family to raise.
And he had always assumed I was with my aunt. He never in a million years thought... The first time he found out I went to foster care, he exploded. He was so angry. And he just, he'd, he had no idea that's where I was. He knew I existed, and he knew I was somewhere, and he thought I was with my aunt, and that's who he had reached out to, was my aunt.
And who I had reached out to was my cousins, that aunt's daughters, [00:14:00] who also knew. And no one would tell me who he was or where he was. So all of that was part of working through the grieving process. And I'm doing well through all that. It's as I said, we never get over it, but we do go through it, and we can move forward, and that's where I'm at this time.
Haley Radke: Did you ever get answers from anyone? Like, why the secrecy? Why the hiding? 'Cause in my view- the, let's call it the shame of it, it's the, it's the- ... unexpected pregnancy, out-of-wedlock whatever. Okay. I don't get why people hide that, but okay. But then this, like, why? It just doesn't make any sense to me. I think I told you this last time too.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yeah. I have to preface all this by saying that I, like many or even most adoptees, I don't have absolute proof of what I'm about to say. So I need to underscore that, that I don't have absolute proof. But some of the [00:15:00] theories I have been told, first of all, the reason that we did not find Gus after looking for a man by the name Gus was that he was so much older than my mom.
He was... It wasn't just 10 years younger or 10 years older. My mom was 20 when she had me, and he was 36. My mom had only told me that he was Greek, 100% Greek, black wavy hair, didn't support her. And then she had also added on to that one more thing, that she was contacted by him in the '80s when he found out she got divorced and had talked about getting back together and that it was a horrible conversation and that she even considered it harassment and wanted nothing to do with him again.
So I knew that little tidbit. When I met people on my paternal side, I was told by some a different story, and again, I don't know if it's true or not. Another little tidbit that the adoption agency told me, not my mom, but the adoption agency in my non-identifying information had told me that my father was from California, he was married with a little boy, [00:16:00] and that when he found out that my mom was pregnant, he decided to go back to his wife and family.
Of course that was all untrue, but I don't, I didn't know where that came from. Where does this lie come from? When I met Gus, all of it came together. First of all, I found out that he had apparently or supposedly I want to say, allegedly, told someone in the family "Whatever you do, don't get a girl pregnant."
And they said did... Is this coming from personal experience?" And he said, "I don't wanna talk about it." And that told that family member that perhaps there was someone out there, maybe there was a child, an adult son or daughter out there. And then everybody in the family wondered, why isn't Gus married?
Greek people are very family-oriented, and they typically, they go to the, at least back in the day especially, they went to the Greek Orthodox Church. They met their future mate through the Greek Orthodox Youth Association. It was unheard of to marry [00:17:00] someone not in the Greek church, and that was just how it went.
And nobody could figure out, why is Gus not married? He's a very attractive man, and he loved women. Everybody just assumed he was not gay because he was just a womanizer to the nth degree. And they wondered, why isn't he putting down roots? Why isn't he getting married? Why isn't he having children?
What is happening here? And I guess some people did some digging to find out why, and I don't have proof that this was my mom again, but the story that was told was that he was dating a much younger woman whose parents did not approve. That's exactly what it says in my non-identifying information from the adoption agency, that the parents did not approve, that he was so much older, that he was a player, he was a womanizer.
They did not like him. That was part of the reason they said, "We do not support you. Do not bring this baby home. You are placing them for adoption." And so her parents [00:18:00] didn't approve, and then I found out after meeting Gus that his parents didn't approve and said, "She's too young, and the main thing is she's not Greek.
She's not wife material. No, this is not happening. You're not going to do this." And so as I said, allegedly, as the story goes, he was told it's either this girl or your family. It's either her or us." And he supposedly made a decision and said, "Okay, I'll stay in the family. I won't marry this girl, but I'll tell you what.
I'm not gonna marry a Greek woman and I'm not gonna give you any grandchildren." And He never did. He never got married. He womanized his whole entire life. Back when he was living with me, we would have these talks late into the night. I would feed him supper, and then we would just talk for hours.
And one night, I said, "So you just womanized until the end of your life." I said two of his friends that I [00:19:00] met, Flo and Francis, one dated him for a while, and they've told me many of these same stories. They've backed up all of these stories that he's told me. And I said, "What did you do as far as these girlfriends?
Did you bring them home?" He said, "Oh, I never brought them home. I didn't want them to know where I lived, and I didn't want them to know my... And when I was living with my family, I didn't want them to know my family." I said, "Where did you take them?" He said, "I always took them to a hotel or to their place. I would never let them know anything about my life." And Francis, who was a friend that I met and was friends with up until the time of her death just a few months ago, told me that he would even tell women that his family was dead, that he had no family. He didn't want his family meeting these girlfriends because he didn't want them getting attached because he had no plans to get married and no plans to have any children, and he didn't want them to mix with his family.
And then to get further clarity one day when he's sitting there in bed and I'm feeding him and getting him ready for nighttime and going to sleep, I said "So what's this California thing? [00:20:00] What is this California thing? I don't... Where does this California story come from about you having a wife and kids, and why did that happen?"
And, Gus' profession, he was a dancer and a, a dance teacher. He was very widely acclaimed. He danced at the White House in the 1960s for the president. He was a very beloved teacher in the area and did a lot of work as well on shows and things like that, and as a dancer. And I said "Where did this California thing come from?"
He goes, "Oh, around the time that your mother was pregnant with you, I got a eight-week dance contract in California, and I took it, and I went out there, and that was my excuse." "Oh, there's a wife and kids you don't know about in California," and I really was in California. I just didn't have a wife, and I didn't have kids, and I was out there for work for a while.
And then when that was over, I flew back to Richmond. So that's where that crazy story came from. And I wasn't sure. I think maybe he had made it up to make the separation easier [00:21:00] rather than say, "I'm just not gonna choose you. I'm gonna choose my family," meaning my mom and dad, my culture. I think it was easier to say...
It might have been easier or seemed easier to say, "Hey, listen, I didn't tell you this before, but I have a wife and kids in California, and I'm gonna go back there and try to make that work." But that was all a lie. And then, of course, I'm always, digging on these things, and I ask his friends that I had met.
After I found Gus, I reached out to all the same Richmond, Virginia social media sites that I had posted on before trying to find him, asking people to help me. I reached out and said, "I found my dad. This is who he is. Do any of you know him? Do you have pictures? Do you have videos? Do you have memories that you can share with me?"
And people did come forward and said, "I know your father. I know him well," or even, "I used to date him," or what have you. And I became friends with different people that responded. And I asked these friends, "Did you ever hear these type of stories, or is this something that you could picture him doing, like giving this excuse?"
And they're like, "Oh, yeah, [00:22:00] absolutely. He would've said whatever he had to say to, get out of this, to cover this up." So that's where that California story comes from. But I found a lot... In answer to your question, I found out a lot of the things like this just by these late night talks and just asking the questions.
Haley Radke: For adopted people, often before we know the answers, if we're lucky to ever get an answer- there's just the feeling of like not being complete or not being rooted or people describe it in- ... various ways. But how have things changed for you now that more of the answers to both, both sides?
And can you just talk about that? I know some people are reluctant to search or some people won't get those answers.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yeah.
Haley Radke: But what difference has it made for you?
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: It has made a huge difference for me, and it's not only me that sees it. My husband is so grateful for it. He is so thankful for it. My husband is not a, a crier. I've [00:23:00] seen him cry maybe five times in 39 years of marriage. But when Gus passed away, my husband stood over his body when the funeral home said, "We'll give you a couple last minutes with him in the living room," as they had him on a stretcher, and my husband stood over his body and just cried and cried.
And then when they took him out, my husband went out and stood on the front steps and cried. And when he came back in, of course I was crying, but I was in shock that my husband was like this because even with other people that have died, I haven't seen this behavior.
And I said, "Wow, babe. You're taking this even stronger than I am tonight." And he said, "I'm reacting this way because he changed your life. I'm reacting this way because I now see the change in you, the change I have waited to see for all these years of marriage. I now see this huge change in you.
I can't even thank..." I would even [00:24:00] overhear him tell Gus several times, "Thank you so much for saying yes to Deanna. You've made all the change in her life. I can't even thank you enough as a husband for the change you've brought to my wife's life." People that have known me for many years in the church, they would say different things to me like, "Wow, Pastor Deanna, you just have this sense of peace that I've not ever seen in you before. Not that you were, like, this particularly non-peaceful person before, but I see this new, I see this new thing in you that I can't even describe." I wanna be clear that it doesn't take away absolutely every question you've ever had, 'cause there's always gonna be things we wonder if they were true.
There's always gonna be those loose ends that we may not be able to tie up. There are always things that I wish I knew more about. However, I will say that something... I felt kinda 50% settled down when my maternal reunion happened. I didn't feel completely settled. I never felt completely settled until I met Gus.
But I felt [00:25:00] halfway settled down in my soul when I met my birth mom. When Gus and I met the other piece was in place, and there was a settledness that came that I had never experienced. I don't walk around anymore looking at faces in public wondering if these people are related to me. I don't have that constant searching in my mind.
When I hear people bring up certain places or certain years or periods of time, I don't wonder, "Oh, could they be my family? Are these people related to me?" Like, all of that wondering and searching and that restlessness it's gone, and it's so freeing. It's so freeing to not have to live in that space anymore.
Haley Radke: When you were describing Gus being so stubborn to his family, being like, "Oh, yeah? I'm never getting- ... married or having kids. Joke's on you," I thought, [00:26:00] "Dang- ... I think Deanna's got a bit of that streak, who searches with such tenacity and assembles a team and keeps year after year like..."
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: You're right. My husband calls me Gus Jr. He used to tell Gus, I'm telling you, he says, "I am married to Gus Jr."
Haley Radke: That's cute. Do you have the moves? Do you have the moves Gus had?
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Not professionally, I will say. I would never be hired as a professional dancer, but I love to dance. I absolutely love it, always have.
Haley Radke: Oh.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: And just for something fun to do. I love it with friends. I love even just being on a cruise with friends and dancing, or dancing at a wedding and things like that, or just dancing with friends. Yes, absolutely love it for fun.
Haley Radke: That's lovely. I love knowing that. I really do.
I think that's one of the most special things for me when I was reading your book and, like- filling in those [00:27:00] gaps for you, for, like, where did these things come from? I don't know. I craved that so much- ... in my own story-
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yep ...
Haley Radke: too. So before we got on, I was saying to you, I was trying to figure out when we first connected, because I remember getting your first books that were about adoption reunion and Worthy To Be Found, and I remember reading those. I think I recommended them on early episodes-
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: You did ...
Haley Radke: of Adoptees On. Okay, so you remember that. I remember you blogging at Lost Daughters.
I remember reading Adoptee Restoration and how- ... impactful that was for me in my early years. I looked up to you so much and respected your wisdom so much.
And so now to be, friends with you and to be connected, it's just really special for me. Anyway, earlier this year I saw you started posting on Adoptee Restoration again, and you started a Substack, and I-
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yes ...
Haley Radke: I got really [00:28:00] excited because the community that's able to be built just in the comments, even on Facebook, I'm like, "Oh yeah, this is what folks have been missing." How did you come to decide- ... to bring Adoptee Restoration back and what's, how has that been going for you?
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: It's been going great. I was on a hiatus for a very long time from it. First of all, I just got so busy with my job. I do work full-time, and I got so busy with my job and ministry and just everything.
But a lot of it, too, was the stress we can sometimes go through as adoptee communicators. It, as can get very heavy. The comment section, even if you don't read the comments or you try to ignore them, the comment sections, particularly from adoptive parents, can be so rough and even abusive.
And then sometimes you get a lot of really [00:29:00] bad attacks from adoptees who haven't worked through many issues, and they choose to lash out at you. And for people like you and I, busy professionals with a family, I know your family is a huge priority for top priority for you in your life, as is mine.
And one of the things that I really wanna have in life, it was always my dream to develop the kind of family I always wanted to have. So my family is a priority. My work is a priority. My friends are a priority. I just only had so much space, and many days when you're just facing all these attacks online, it gets heavy.
It gets very heavy. I kept the blog Adoptee Restoration up. It was still there, and I kept my social media, my Facebook page there and very rarely posted on it, maybe a couple times a year. But I backed up because I'm like, "I just don't know if this level of stress..." And stewardship.
If you do something, Haley, [00:30:00] you do it right. If I do something, I do it right. I'm gonna steward it well. I'm gonna facilitate it. It's gonna be done the right way. So I didn't really enter the fray again for a very long time. And then what really began to stir me, ultimately, I believe it was the Lord.
However, God used people. So when Larissa MacFarquhar came from The New Yorker to my house for those three days, I was wondering that whole time "Is it my imagination?" Or "Could I see myself being friends with this person?" I didn't even know if that was even a thing, if she would ever remember me again or ever wanna hear from me, or if this was just her job.
But we actually did become friends who stayed in touch, and even when she was at my house for those three days, she would say why aren't you still speaking out more about this? And you have a lot of important things to say, and you say them very well, and I don't understand why you're not stepping into this arena."
And I would say as you can see in your interviewing process [00:31:00] and searching all of these sites online, there, there is a really heavy comment section that can just get really difficult. And I'm just really, I just really don't know if I'm up to that. And she would say, "I just really believe you're meant to step out into the fray."
Then there was an adoptive parent who I've mentioned to you, Haley. She follows you. I know she'll be listening to this. Danielle Quinones. She has read everything I've written. She has listened to everything you've ever produced and loves it. And she she's an adoptive parent who's really doing things right.
And she reached out to me, and she said, "Deanna, why aren't you speaking about this? Why aren't you still writing at Adoptee Restoration? Why aren't you in this arena?" And I explained all the same things to her that I did to Larissa and that I have to you, and she said I really believe you belong here.
I really think you need to pray about coming back." And so I did, and it was not a fast decision. It w- this was something over I was really wrestling with it the last time you and I interviewed. I was really wrestling with [00:32:00] the whole thing even though I had just, I had just found Gus, and you had a lot of just off-the-record advice for me on taking time with my book, not rushing the process, which I did.
I was never so glad to have received that advice and never so glad that I took it. And just waiting, trying to figure out in my spirit, what I was supposed to do and where I belong. And a couple months ago, I just had an assurance in my spirit that this is what I was supposed to do.
There was another conversation with Larissa just sitting out on my porch talking on the phone, and she said, "Have you thought any more about this, Deanna? I really feel like it's where you belong." And then another conversation with Danielle. "Have you thought about this anymore? I really feel like it's where you belong."
And I decided to just put myself back out there, and boom. It just, it's been a great response ever since. So I'm glad to be back, and there are days where the comment section does get heavy, but I'm doing the best I can.
Haley Radke: I'm trying to describe the feeling. I felt like- [00:33:00] relief, I think, to see you back there because- it does get heavy, and there's times where I want to pause, and I wanna know that there's other people out there carrying some of the weight. So I love that you're-
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yeah ...
Haley Radke: you're there.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Thank you. Thank you. And even though I haven't been speaking out for several years, I still follow. I still follow everything you do.
I still follow what you're doing. I still needed to have a personal investment in me as an adoptee and to receive from other people. And it's been a great joy to keep following what you're doing and to receive the personal help that I need.
Haley Radke: Can you talk to us a little bit... I know you're a writer. People know that. You've written many books, both on adoption but also in your vocation as a minister. And can you talk about what it was like to write [00:34:00] about Gus and to- go through papers and listen to the recordings- ... you made and what's it been like for you to do that?
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Almost indescribable. I've never taken so much time on anything I've written. In fact, one time I felt led to write a book for this tour that I was doing as a part of my job, this women's tour for my job. I'm the director for women for the state of Florida for the Assemblies of God. And I felt led to write a book and, but I would have to do it real quick in time to have to give it to these women on this tour.
And I wrote an entire book in 30 days. I'm a fast writer. I can crank out, I can crank out content. I don't write slowly, ever. It's just not what I do. So taking your advice and you had talked to me about it, it's not just write slowly for the sake of writing slowly, but it was because I was going through the grief process and not rushing that.
And also realizing that on year one I might feel differently than I do on [00:35:00] year two, and there's more to share or there's something different to share. Now I'm four years out. This happened... he passed in 2022, and this was a very hard... The... I tell people, this is my seventh book, and I tell you what, this... and I will write many books after this, this is the book I was born to write. I will never do any more important book than this one. I can assure you of that. And it's not just because it was a miracle story, but because woven into this book, I've tried to, I've tried to share the common thoughts and experiences of those of us who are domestic adoptees born in the baby scoop era with the closed and sealed records, and what that process is like for us, and that only 17 states are still are open in the United States of America, and that we need to see change and to help people try to understand what some of us have lived through.
And so I feel like this is the project of [00:36:00] my life. 'Cause I'm not just weaving the story of me and my father. I'm trying to describe what it is like to be me, what it is like to be many of us So that process has been very long, and there were whole chapters, like the chapter where he died, that I don't even... it took it well over a year to just even finish that one chapter. I would just write a little bit, write a couple paragraphs, and just sit and cry. And then write another couple paragraphs, and cry, and put it away for a week or two. Pick it back up, write another couple paragraphs, and cry.
The part where I describe the moments of his death and the moments right after, it was just overwhelmingly emotional to call those memories up again, to describe them exactly as I remember them being, and to try to quantify the enormity of those moments for people, to try to bring them into... make them feel like they were in that room with me when I lost my father. [00:37:00] So it was a very long process, and I'm glad that I've taken all this time, and I'm still on that journey, to be honest with you
Haley Radke: I remember when you were so very public with the story, when you had all the media coverage and eyes on you.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yeah.
Haley Radke: And, we spoke about it, and you really were like, "I made them focus on the adoptee lens. I made that..." The, the boundaries you put up and how firm you were about that. And I think you and I both share this passion for adopted people to have-
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yes ...
Haley Radke: the mic and to be seen, and so I so- appreciate that about you.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: That was another thing, I gotta be honest with you, about coming back to this space. I want to be... I endeavor all the time to be a mature leader and someone who responds in the right way. I say leader, referring to myself as a leader, not just a writer. I want to always respond in a way that is [00:38:00] wise, and sometimes it is very hard to not just pop off with some crazy thing when they don't focus on the adoptee experience, and here they are, reporter after reporter would call me and try to talk to me about this miracle story of my father and I, but inevitably, within the first few minutes, they would say something like, "And how does your adoptive mother feel about this?" And I would just wanna scream or punch somebody in the face. It's so hard in those moments to handle yourself with wisdom, with maturity, with grace, and I've tried really hard.
But that was another reason why it took me so long to come back to being in this arena. Because dealing with questions and statements and comments like that, it's maddening. It's maddening, and I just find myself saying, "Is it ever gonna change?" We're here to be part of the change, but it gets so frustrating dealing with that.
I have turned down interviews. I have turned down interviews with, I won't even name the names, but people that everybody would know [00:39:00] because I said these are my ground rules, especially after the first couple that I experienced and I saw how they go, I would tell them upfront, "This isn't... This is a story about my father and I. These are the ground rules. Don't ask me how my adoptive mother feels about this or I'm not doing this interview." And one, one reporter even said do you understand that our viewers are not gonna be okay with this?" And I'm like, "Yes, I actually do understand that they won't be okay with it, 'cause I've lived with this for 56 years of my life, so yeah, I do understand that."
And so she said, "But do you understand that they're not gonna be okay with that and that they will probably bombard us with that question? They will bombard our media agency. They will bombard us with this question. We're just gonna hear this constantly, so wouldn't it just be easier to answer it in the interview?"
And I said, "No, because I don't want to, because this is a story about me and my father." And she said do you understand that if they can't get this information from us, they're probably gonna then [00:40:00] track you down and bombard you to get the information?" I said, "Yes, ma'am, I do understand that. I've dealt with this 56 years of my life.
Why do you think I'm refusing to answer the question? Because it needs to stop." And then there were interviews that some people would think I was crazy to turn down, but did because I'm just not going to... I'm just not gonna be bullied in that way anymore. I'm just not gonna do it.
Haley Radke: I'm gonna be shady, 'cause I know one of them, and then I know who stepped in- and was fine selling out. I- you have a lot of integrity.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yeah. And that celebrity, let me just say, and this is what they do, that celebrity, which everybody would recognize her name, everybody listening to this interview would recognize her name, when I said, "These are my boundaries. This is an interview about me and my adoptive [sic: biological] dad.
This isn't about my adoptive mom," she made the statement that we're not gonna do this interview because you've got bad vibes [00:41:00] you've got bad vibes. I'm like, "Cool. Okay, I got bad vibes." I'm not, you're not going to bully me into, you're not gonna name call and bully me into doing this interview. I'm just not doing it. I'm very content to have bad vibes. If that what she thinks, let her think it
Haley Radke: Wow. I will be mature and keep my comments to myself. Everybody guess in the comments.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: So much we could say.
Haley Radke: No, just kidding.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: So much we could say.
Haley Radke: I appreciate you so much. I was so honored to read an early copy of your book, and Finding Mr. Greek, I think is gonna be on everyone's reading list this fall. Instead of gushing, 'cause I'm gonna go too long, I'm just gonna read the endorsement I wrote for you. Is that okay ?
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Oh, yeah, I would love that, and thank you for endorsing it. I'm honored that you endorsed it.
Haley Radke: If you've ever reached out to me for [00:42:00] a book endorsement, you'll get the email saying, "I only endorse books that I read all the way through and I actually love." So I don't... It doesn't go on very many books.
"Finding her father, Gus, feels miraculous, but it's Deanna's rare compassion in caring for him that makes this story unforgettable. Being invited into her search and reunion while also exploring the hard truths of being an adoptee feels like meeting on hallowed ground. A moving, tear-filled, and deeply authentic account that will resonate with anyone who understands the pain of not knowing where you come from."
I'm so proud of you, my friend. It's so good. And we've talked before about faith and how difficult it can be in this space because so many of us were hurt in a way by the church.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yes.
Haley Radke: Conflating adoption [00:43:00] and saviorism and all of those kinds of things, so a lot of us have had difficult experiences.
But I think even as you bring your your personal faith through this book, I think even people who are not necessarily interested in that will take away a lot from your story. And getting to know Gus through your eyes is so special.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: It was such a joy to be able to introduce him to the world. I did a little bit of that with the little bit of time we had together just through even 30-second videos. And people loved him. They thought he was so hilarious, and he was. Through the short reels on social media and the short posts, but being able to have this longer opportunity to really describe him and our relationship was such a joy.
Haley Radke: Yes. What did you wanna recommend for us today?
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yes, there's so many things I could recommend.
Of course, I always, I'm not just [00:44:00] saying this, I don't want anybody to think I am just buttering up to you here. I really mean it. The number one thing I always recommend is your show. But if I have to come up with another one and I can't use that one, I would say I wanna recommend the Adoptee Therapist Directory.
I am a huge believer in therapy. The one regret that I have from my initial, my maternal reunion is that I didn't have any therapy going through that whole thing, and it was just so difficult. So I'd already gone to therapy through the years, but with my reunion with Gus, I immediately, therapy was so key, and for us to go through that.
And then I've had a lot of therapy after that, too, and I just recommend it for all adoptees to have trauma-informed therapy with an adoption competent, particularly adoptee competent therapist. So I love this site, growbeyondwords.com and Beyond Words Psychological Services. They have this fantastic resource that they call the Adoptee Therapist Directory, and these are therapists that [00:45:00] specifically work with adoptees all over the world. And I just, I think that's wonderful.
Haley Radke: I love it. I send folks there all the time, and there's more and more therapists who are licensed for all the states and yes, great recommendation. Where can we find Finding Mr. Greek and Adoptee Restoration and connect with you online, Deanna?
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yes, you can find Finding Mr. Greek on Amazon. And thank you for directing people there. And please leave a review. Leave an honest review, please, if you read it. I'm honored by people that do that. It really helps to get the word out. You can also find me at drdeannashrodes.com. D-R Deanna Schrodes, D-E-A-N-N-A S-H-R-O-D-E-S.com.
That's my main website just for all things Deanna Schrodes. And then you can find my old ... I just began this Substack when I began really entering in with Adoptee Restoration again, because my [00:46:00] old blog was on Blogger and I just wanted an updated platform. So all my old work is archived at adopteerestoration.com.
The whole, the whole entire archive of all of my old posts, my initial posts that everybody got to know me by are at adopteerestoration.com. And then there's the link there to my new Substack, which is Adoptee Restoration on Substack. That's where I'm writing now. Oh, and then the main place that I interact with adoptees is the Adoptee Restoration Facebook.
Haley Radke: When I went to, do a little research to prepare for today, I was reading back through some of the old posts and I was like, "Oh my Go-..." I just had such this nostalgia feeling. We were friends then, you just didn't know it.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yes. Yes. Absolutely, we were. I love it.
Haley Radke: Thank you so much-
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: I love it
Haley Radke: for coming back, sharing more of your story.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Oh.
Haley Radke: And just congratulations on the book. It's wonderful.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Thank you. Thank you for having me, Haley. It is always a joy. You got the best thing going here with Adoptees On. And have you talked yet about [00:47:00] your new project that's getting ready to launch?
Haley Radke: People know. People know. Yes.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Oh, okay.
Haley Radke: Yes. I'll continue to talk about it.
Deanna Shrodes, D.Min.: Yeah, you're getting ready to launch this... Yeah. Yeah. Please. This new thing that she's talking about, everyone needs to know about it because it's gonna change the world.
Haley Radke: Oh, thank you. Appreciate that.
You can find out more about my new project that Deanna was mentioning at the end of our conversation. It's called On Adoption. The website is onadoption.net, and if you sign up for our podcast newsletter, you will certainly hear about any updates. Adopteeson.com/newsletter. I feel so grateful for my friendships with fellow adoptee advocates in particular because they really get it and we share the same passion, which is supporting adult adoptees.
And I have been so grateful to have Deanna [00:48:00] as a part of my life, and of course, you can hear her passion behind her story and her willingness to serve adoptee community. So she is well beloved among- by many of us. Thank you so much for listening. Let's talk again soon.
