52 Brian - Blank: A Journey in Search of Identity
/Transcript
Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/52
Haley Radke: [00:00:00] You are listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. This is Season Three, Episode 12, Brian. I'm your host, Haley Radke. Today I get to introduce you to Brian Stanton. We have an incredibly powerful conversation, but it includes some difficult subjects including sexual assault.
So if you're around kids, please make sure you've got your earbuds in. This was one of my favorite interviews of the whole year, and so I'm just gonna leave the introduction at that. I'm not gonna spoil anything. Except that we are going to let you know when your next chance to see Brian's play Blank will be, and we wrap up with some recommended resources and links to everything we talk about today will be on the website adopteeson.com. Let's listen in.
I'm so pleased to welcome to Adoptees On [00:01:00], Brian Stanton. Welcome Brian.
Brian Stanton: Haley, so good to be here. Thank you so much. I see you here like I'm in your presence, but we're doing this thing distantly.
Haley Radke: We're very far away. But I did get to meet you in person, which is not true of all my guests.
So yeah, we met in Indiana at the Indiana Adoptee Network Conference where you performed. It was such a great conference. You performed your one-man show, Blank, and I just cried and it was amazing. So we'll get to talk about that later.
So thanks for coming on the show. I'd love it if you would start out by sharing your story with us.
Brian Stanton: So funny, I never know where to start, like where the beginning is, you know? Because I think the beginning is when I started the reunion, but let me give some backstory because I think it would help where my mind was at that time and then [00:02:00] where it evolved, I guess.
I was born in 1975 in Kansas City, Missouri, and adopted through Catholic Charities. I'd always known that I was adopted. My parents were very open with me from the very beginning. It was just that way. There were no secrets or anything like that that I had to deal with.
I'm white. I was adopted into a white family. They were Catholic, and I went through Catholic Charities. So, you know, most of the time that means that your mother who gave you up was Catholic. Most likely. Not always. I always tell people these days that I always looked the part back then, you know, when I said I was adopted, most people didn't even believe me.
Which I didn't know how to take at that time. And I always, if my friends never believed me, I would go to my mom, my adoptive mom and say, Hey, [00:03:00] mom, tell 'em I'm adopted. Right? Tell 'em I'm adopted. So that poor woman had to constantly verify the fact that I wasn't her biological child.
Or the other reaction would be, Oh my God, you're adopted? How do you feel about that? Are you okay? And I was like, what do you mean? Uh, yes, of course I'm fine. You know, I live that narrative. Everything's fine. Like I was given away for a reason, for my own good. Right? You know, that whole narrative. I just kind of lived that narrative for a long time.
But my mom and dad, my dad was a little more quiet than my mother, they were always open with me if I ever asked questions. And to this day, my mom still says that I was always curious. I always asked about my birth mother. I always had this feeling that I would [00:04:00] meet her no matter what. I just knew.
I just kind of knew that day would come and I lived in the fantasy world, you know, the “ghost kingdom.” You know who my mother was if I was thrilled about it, she was this beautiful Anne Bancroft woman who would come and save me from this miserable situation that I was in right now.
Or if I was being positive about my adoptive family, then no, no, no. She couldn't afford me. She was hooked on drugs. I mean, these horrible fantasies that we live and that we picture our first mothers as just these fantasies walking the ghost kingdom all the time. Anyway, I always knew that someday I would meet her. I moved out here to Los Angeles, where I currently live, for graduate school, for a theater program specializing in acting [00:05:00] at California Institute of the Arts.
And I went home for the holidays and I was 23, no 22 about to turn 23. Haley, that was 20 years ago actually from right now, now that I'm thinking about it. Oh my gosh. Okay. So this is the 20th anniversary of the upcoming reunion here. So I went home for Christmas. I was sitting in the kitchen with my adoptive mom and my sister.
I'm sorry, I should probably say my mom adopted me because she had a few miscarriages. Both my parents believed that they could not have children of their own. So I came into the picture and then a year after, literally a year after, they were able to have a biological child.
My sister came out, she's one year younger than me, and then they had my brother four years after that. So I actually [00:06:00] I grew up with a brother and a sister who were biologically related to my parents, which is very common. I hear that parents, not believing they could have a kid, adopt right away and then relax into it and have their own kids.
Anyway, I'm sitting in the kitchen with my mother and sister and my mom brings it up. Just brings up adoption out of the blue, information about my birth mother, asking if I was still interested. And then she goes to this cabinet, so to speak, on the wall, pulls out this folder with information and gives me my original birth certificate.
And this is important actually because in Missouri, I was adopted in Kansas City, Missouri, that was illegal. You know, I did not have the right to my birth certificate, to my original birth certificate. You know, birth records were closed in Missouri. [00:07:00]. But a friend of hers worked in Catholic Charities at the time and made a photocopy of it and gave it to her.
What an angel. Right?
Haley Radke: Right.
Brian Stanton: Now I didn't know this. I didn't know it was illegal at the time. Anyway, so I'm looking at it and my mother's name was on the birth certificate. And so my adoptive mother's just like, Shall we call her? Should we do this? Should we look her up? And she looks her up and she is literally in the phone book, her name with her husband.
Her husband's name was in the phone book, right there. So my mom calls her in front of me and I was like, Oh my gosh, mom, what are you doing? I didn't have much time to process, you know? And my mother is a very Italian stubborn woman who will just [00:08:00] do things, you know, just go do things.
And she called her and I'm literally ducking under the kitchen table, like I'm so physically frightened, which was weird. There were foreign feelings coming up, I guess I should say. And her son answered the phone, who we learned was her son. My mom is talking to him where she is, where she's working, uh, what's your name?
And he said his name was Brian. So I have a half-brother with my same name, which I learned is also very common. My birth mother did not know my adoptive parents named me Brian. Uh, so there's that synchronicity there that is very interesting. So I'm trying to process all this and we learned that my [00:09:00] birth mother works at a library in Kansas City, not too far from where we live.
And my mom's like, Should we go see her? Like, what? She's like, Yeah, let's go see her. And a huge part of me wanted me to see her of course. Then there was a part of me that was scared as [censored], I mean just frightened, right? So of course we go and my sister's all for it, Oh yeah, let's do this.
Haley Radke: Oh, sure, you know, it's like there's no impact on her.
Brian Stanton: Oh my gosh. So we drive to this library and my mom goes, You wanna come in? I'm like, No, I don't wanna come in right now. I don't know. I don't wanna come in. And she goes into the library and I literally get, just like I hid under the kitchen table, I got on the floor of the car by the seat and just kind of ducked, you know?
But my [00:10:00] curiosity was so strong. I guess I just let my mom do what she wanted to do, you know? I don't know. It was bizarre this whole day. Anyway, she comes back minutes later, it wasn't that long, and said, I think I saw her. What? What do you mean? You think you saw her? Did you talk to her? No, but I think I saw her in the back doing something. Like, well, what do you mean?
And she said, Oh, well, I talked to the main librarian right there at the desk and just asked her a few questions. My mom can do this. It's amazing. She'll just start talking to someone, asking questions. And then she said she was pretty sure she saw her in the back, but didn't say anything. Just got a look, I guess.
Anyway, I was freaking out. Finally, this all ends with, Well, Brian, let me know if you wanna get in touch with her and I'll do that. I'll call her up and I'll just ask her to write you a letter. Is that okay? Is that what you want? [00:11:00] And I said, Yeah, letter is fine. Uh, so I'll let you know when I'm ready.
And that's kind of where we left it. And I went back to California, back to grad school and I was ready. I don't know. I guess I just needed to process it for a few days, you know, even a week. I think it might have been a couple days when I got back to California, I was like, All right, mom, you can go ahead and make that phone call. You know, I think I'm ready.
And she made the phone call and she called me up and said, Okay. I spoke with her. She's gonna write you a letter. And so I was like, Okay. And I'm waiting for it. I was in my acting class, which was a three-hour class, and we have a break. And I went to the mailroom and I see the letter with her name and the return address.
And I started weeping. [00:12:00] You know, I had tears in my eyes, I was shaking. A friend of mine was right next to me. She gave me a big hug. She said, Whatever you need, what do you need to do? So we went back to the acting class. I told my teacher, I said, I need to leave, I'm sorry. And she's like, No, please, go ahead.
I told her that I was adopted and my mother writing a letter to me. This is her letter to me right now. And the acting teacher was, Oh my gosh. Well, did you wanna open it and read it right here in front of our class? This is an amazing moment. You know what I mean?
Like, no, I think I'll handle this by myself right now. So I go out and go amongst these trees and just sit in the dirt and I'm outdoors and it was actually a gorgeous environment up there. And then I read the [00:13:00] letter and she basically says she didn't want to give me up for adoption.
She really had no choice and she thought it would be best for me. And she said, I'll come right out and say it, I was at a high school party and I was gang raped by a few boys. Obviously that's a lot to take right away. I was crying, just sobbing audibly. I think I literally dropped the letter, Haley, and just walked.
I just walked away, just trying to process everything, you know, and what this means and who I am and everything that I thought I was and all my fantasies that were living up in the ghost kingdom of who my biological parents were and what my life would've been with them and, you know, all of that.
What that means now, [00:14:00] when reality actually hits. I finally gathered myself and read the rest of the letter, and I needed people. I needed people right away. I think looking back, one of the ways that adoption has emotionally affected me is I need touch. I need touch and connection. And I know it's because my birth mother did not touch me right away.
You know, they kind of took me away. They took me away right away, which she expressed to me later. So I actually went back to the class. When you're in a graduate acting training program, you're vulnerable for three years. I mean, you're naked, sometimes physically, but mostly emotionally.
It's this group of people that you bare everything to. So you just go through this with [00:15:00] them for three years. It's really hardcore. I can't fully put it into words what you go through, but I felt highly comfortable with this class of 10 at this time. And I needed them, and they comforted me, and I actually read them the letter.
I was able to process it better with them around me. And then, to top that off, the woman who I was dating at the time, who is now my wife, drove all the way up to comfort me. And, Haley, I don't know about your reunion and stuff, but I cried uncontrollably off and on for probably 48 hours and I didn't understand. I didn't understand why I was crying.
I was just crying. I could be laughing and joking around with my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time, and then all of a sudden I started crying. All these feelings [00:16:00] coming up. Anyway, we get into reunion, we have that beautiful honeymoon period. I'll revisit the crying in a second.
I write her a letter and then we start emailing each other. Then we have the phone call. And, you know, not only was her name real, not only were the words on her letter real, but then I hear her voice and that's real. And then we meet. We met in Kansas City when I was there for I think it was my brother's graduation at the time.
And when we met physically, everything was so exciting. You know, that honeymoon period when everything's so exciting, you're learning about each other and: Oh, you do this? Oh, I love that too. Oh, I love that music too. Oh, that's one of my favorite movies. Oh, we have so much in common, blah, blah, you know. And when I see her in person, she couldn't [00:17:00] stop hugging me and touching me and crying, and I didn't know how to take that either.
Like, suddenly I was the adult in the room and I felt like, No, I'm fine. Everything's fine. I'm great. You made it, you made a smart decision. You know, I'm in this family now. I'm lucky, you know. I felt like I was trying to soothe her because I didn't know where she was coming from.
I had no therapy, I had no idea about any adoption support groups. I was coming in cold, living the narrative that I'd always been taught. You know, my mother gave me away for my best interests. I have a great relationship, especially with my brother and sister. We're very close. My mom and [00:18:00] dad, we’re close. We all have our issues, but for the most part, I've lived a great life, you know.
So I was coming from there. I'm like, Why is this woman sobbing and grabbing me and touching me? And I didn't know how to deal with it. We form a relationship. She comes out, visits with me in California, and, and even the questions, uh, she's showering me with gifts, Haley, and I was like, Oh my gosh, you don't have to make up for your lost time.
That's what I felt like she felt like she had to do. But really I felt undeserving of all those gifts, you know, which I understood later why I felt that. But I kept saying, You don't have to give me all these gifts and you don't have to do all this. It's fine. I'm fine. I met her family for Christmas Eve, or it was a couple days before Christmas, her whole family was there, and my wife and I went and visited and the whole family was there.
She has seven brothers and sisters. She's one of eight. And [00:19:00] it was so overwhelming. I hardly remember that night. Like, I've blacked it out, you know. I guess I'm getting at I just didn't understand where I was, and after a while, I pushed her away and she said, Okay, on your time, I'm sorry that I've been so forward.
So then I write this play and I'm introduced to this world of adoption. I go to my first support group like a year after my first performance, and I'm like, what? You people are here and have these feelings? And I listen to the birth mothers and listen to everything that they're saying and listen to other adoptees.
And I'm like, I understand now. I understand now. You know, I wrote this play just being honest with myself and getting my feelings out there and wrote this journey that I thought I was going on. [00:20:00] But little did I know what I wrote. I didn't fully understand it till probably a year after I was performing it.
Haley Radke: As you're sharing your story, I'm like, Oh my goodness, this play was truly autobiographical. You're sharing all these different scenes and these are all in the play.
Brian Stanton: Yeah. It's crazy, huh?
Haley Radke: Well, the search for identity and this big canvas, or I'm not sure what it is, but with all of the different ways that we may find our identity. Can you give a couple?
Brian Stanton: Yeah, yeah. No, that is a real outline that I was given by one of my acting teachers. It was an analysis of your character. It's actually like four pages long and I just take a little snippet of it. And it's word for word. And I put [00:21:00] it on a tapestry that hangs upstage.
Haley Radke: And you wrote all of this stuff without ever talking to another adoptee about adoptee issues.
Brian Stanton: Right.
Haley Radke: Oh my gosh.
Brian Stanton: See, I found it ironic that I'm an actor and I feel like I dive into these characters and I know all about these characters and these human beings that I'm portraying. I know so much about them, but I don't know who I am.
And that's what that journey is in the play. As an actor, I thought that was an important point of view. Can I find out who I am by using your outline of an analysis of your character to find out who I am as well personally? And yeah, that's where my show takes the audience.
Haley Radke: Wow. [00:22:00] Can you talk a little bit about that? You were saying that you kept a journal during that time.
Brian Stanton: Yeah. While it was going on, because everything was so new and foreign to me, all these feelings, I decided to keep a journal and I kept it to the detail.
I wrote in it every single day throughout the entire period from when my mother gave me my birth certificate all the way through my reunion and every day, Haley. I kept all these emails as well that we exchanged, my birth mother and I.
I'm gonna go back to the crying thing. I learned this through the birth mothers, but they resort to that time period again when they reunite with you. So when my mother saw me for the first time physically, she was 16 years old, [00:23:00] you know, and I'm a 23-year-old man. Uh, so I understand all that now, and I wish I understood it then. I think I would've handled it a lot better emotionally.
But then I parallel that to me because maybe I resorted. I shouldn't say resort. Does that sound negative?
Haley Radke: Reverted? Is that the word you’re looking for?
Brian Stanton: Sure. Yeah. Thank you. When I saw the letter in her name, I went back to being an infant, to being a newborn, to being a fetus, right? Because the trauma that we experienced, we didn't have any language for so we didn't understand it.
So I think that's why they were such foreign feelings that were just exploding in my body and why I [00:24:00] was crying uncontrollably. Because what do we do when we come out of the womb? We cry. Right? And I must have come out of the womb again right there when I was seeing my mother's words for the first time, explaining everything.
So I kind of equate my experience with that, with my birth mother's experience going back to when she was 16 years old, going through her experience. Right?. What were we talking about?
Haley Radke: Writing. Writing, yes. You were keeping a journal and where I'm headed hopefully is the process of writing and performing.
Brian Stanton: While I was at grad school, I saw a one-woman show by a friend of mine named Joy Gregory, who's an amazing woman. She's actually a writer for television right now. I was just inspired by her. It had nothing to do with adoption, it was just her way of telling a very personal story. And I was like, You know, I think I'd like to do a one-person show.
And she's like, Great. [00:25:00] You know, some people do biographies, pick your favorite person or whatever and become that person. And some people do autobiographies, maybe a story of your life, something like that. And I was like, I don't know. I'd really have to think about a biography. And it sounds kind of hard, a lot of work. What is that?
And she said, Well, you know, you should think about an autobiography. Like, what's your story? I was like, Oh my God, I don't know. I don't have a story. I don't have a story. Oh my God, what does that mean? Who am I? I'm a nobody. Oh my gosh, I'm nobody.
And I just was thinking about that for so long. But at the same time, I was going through the reunion and I had all this stuff written out, and finally I realized, well, maybe that's my story. So I took that feeling of [00:26:00] not having a story and being a nobody and then all this stuff I had written in my journal and I started to combine them.
I mainly was writing, going through, what does it mean that I don't know who I am? What does it mean that I don't have a story? You know, who am I? So I just started asking myself questions. Who am I? And I started writing all these conversations and philosophical, ethereal conversations. And then on the side, I'd start typing out my journal just so I would revisit everything.
And this was a while later and I just was able to mold those two together. A journey in search of identity with the background of my adoption story. That's just kind of how I saw my play at the time. My final year at Cal Arts, I had a guest [00:27:00] director as one of my teachers.
And he heard about my adoption story and he said, Brian, I'm directing a one-woman show right now that is about this. Would you like to come see it? I said, Yeah. He's like, it's down in Hollywood. I've been workshopping the play with her and we're just doing one show in Hollywood. Come and see it.
And so I came and saw it, and her name was Alison Larkin and she did a play called the English American, where she was raised in London and found out her birth mother was from Tennessee, you know? So it was a fun, great play. And that kind of boosted me to really start writing this thing.
Uh, anyway, yeah. So I got friends of mine to read and give me some suggestions. You know, a third eye for the script. They would say, Okay, [00:28:00] I think you're saying this. Is this what you're saying? Because this is what I'm getting.
So that was really great. Because I don't fancy myself as a writer at all. I. So to have somebody just go over my script was really important and really helped me out to make sure I got my point across.
Haley, I'd put it on the back burner, you know, and then come back and write. Or I'd be doing a play, then I'd come back and write, then I'd leave it. So, I mean, the whole process took like 10 years to tell you the truth to really get it going. But when I decided I was gonna do it, I looked for a director. I wanted a woman to direct it, to bring in the maternal, feminine point of view.
So I think we balanced each other out really well. We trusted each other very much. She challenged me, she helped me rewrite sections, and it was something I told myself I wanted to do. I'm gonna do it, fail or succeed, whatever it is. I'm gonna do this.
And then in [00:29:00] April of 2010, I premiered it in Hollywood. I had planned to do 12 shows minimum. I ended up doing 18 shows in Hollywood for that particular run. And then took it to some theater festivals, some solo festivals, as well as theater festivals.
And then I got a call from a woman named Karen Vedder who was planning the Concerned United Birthparents retreat, which I know you went to recently, right? Did you, did you go to the last one?
Haley Radke: I did, yes.
Brian Stanton: Isn't it a lovely retreat?
Haley Radke: Yeah. It's amazing people.
Brian Stanton: Yes. Well, she called me and said, I've heard about your show. You have a show? And I said, yes, I do have a show. I had tried to connect with adoption organizations while I was promoting the show. Right? Just for an audience, that's just what you need to do. There are thousands and thousands of plays [00:30:00] here in Los Angeles. They go on and you gotta find some kind of target.
Yeah. So, of course I reached out to the adoption, but I didn't know really what I was reaching out to. And I had a great meeting with Sarah Burns. Oh my goodness. She first opened my eyes to the birth mother's point of view. I was like, okay, okay. Anyway, Karen called me and she said, Well, we're doing a retreat. It's gonna be September, October, I can't remember, but we'd like you to do your show at our retreat.
And I was like, Great, that'd be amazing. This is what I want to do with this, you know, talk to my peeps, right? And I said, But Karen, do you wanna see the play first? I had no confidence in my play and I was nervous about going or what she was expecting, you know?
I mean, it's not a linear play [00:31:00]. I wear a mask and, you know, bring in the Greeks with it. I have Oedipus Rex in it. I have this avant-garde physicality in it. I say [censored] so many times, you know. I'm like, What are these people expecting? This isn't gonna be a rainbowy type of play, you know. So it's like, do you wanna see it first?
Which is not a good way to get a job either by saying that, but she said, Well, yeah, I'll see it, but tell me about it. But she ended up coming to see it when I was performing it in Hollywood. And they said, It's perfect. It's perfect. Come and do it.
And so when I performed at the retreat, it was the first time I was in a room with 200 some odd people that were all connected to adoption. It was a huge eye-opener [00:32:00]. It was a huge discovery. It was a release. It was an amazing experience. I'm talking about me, not the audience.
Haley Radke: No, I get you. I get you. But what were some of the things people said to you after? Were people openly weeping?
Brian Stanton: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I could hear them during the play, which was really jarring at first, but also moving for me because I'm like, yes, yes, I'm feeling this here now too. So I think I started to become more open as an actor to the piece rather than being skeptical as a writer while I was performing the piece, if that makes any sense at all.
Obviously, I held a Q&A after the show and people were standing up and saying things to me, and then I'd be like, Oh, that's why I wrote this line, you know? And then one guy stood up and said, I have said this line that you said in the play [00:33:00]. I was like, Oh my gosh. So it just created this conversation and it opened up my mind to what I had created. So my art kind of surprised me in a way.
Haley Radke: So often, you know, when I'm talking to people about the things that they've created and they're talking about writing it and going through the whole process and how that's sort of been a healing journey for them.
And it sounds like yours sort of started after you started actually performing it.
Brian Stanton: I did have discoveries while I was writing it, definitely, but not really on the adoption front. Well, Haley, everything I do I think is definitely motivated and driven by my adoption story. I think that I've learned the last several years.
I was working with a friend of mine, we pushed each other, Jay Sefton, a really good friend of mine, talented actor and great writer. We were like, Hey, we're gonna [00:34:00] do this one-man show. We met every Friday. We shared our scripts with each other and we just kind of motivated each other. Where are you right now in this? So I had the bravery to actually put it up.
So while I was trying to discover some of these words, for instance, there was a scene in the play. It was actually towards the end. I present this internal struggle, this internal conflict where there's a box and I flip the box back and forth. I'm talking to myself, to my internal self. I kept asking, What are you afraid of? What are you afraid of? And I didn't know, you know. And I'm writing the scene and I'm like, where is this scene going?
What is the big thing that I'm afraid of right now at this moment? And I left the computer. I got in my car and I was driving, [00:35:00] to get a snack and some green tea or something. And Pink Floyd was playing on the radio, which is a big influence for me. And it hit me. I was afraid of being a nobody because I didn't know who I was.
Then I was like, wait a second. That's it! I'm trying to understand who I am. I'm trying to understand my purpose, I'm trying to understand where I come from. You know, all of this just relates to each other. And that ended up being pretty much the climax of the play.
So I did have discoveries and I did discover that, well, adoption does have a lot to do with my identity journey and with all these questions that are coming. So I had that, but I didn't fully get how adoption has affected me until I heard [00:36:00] from other adoptees. And especially the mothers, man. Especially the mothers, really, really opened my eyes.
Haley Radke: Are you in contact with your birth mother now?
Brian Stanton: I am. It's a tough time right now. It has been for the last couple years. It's funny, Haley, I was a little nervous about this interview because I really haven't had a deep conversation about adoption for a little while. Probably since Indiana.
I mean, I was so immersed in it for five, six years, you know, and then I just kind of drifted away a little bit and I was only doing Blank a couple times, two or three times a year for the last three years. So I wasn't sure what was gonna come out. It was like, where are my emotions about all this right now? So this is great.
My birth mother has put the ball in my court completely [00:37:00]. And I'm frustrated by that, really frustrated by that. I've told her, You can call me. You can call me. I'm sorry. You know, I'm sorry that I pushed you. I understand that I pushed you away at the beginning.
I performed Blank in Kansas City where I was born, adopted, and raised. And, I think that was a big turning point because I got a lot of publicity. I was in the newspaper, I was on the local news. I was on the local NPR station, and there were a couple things that really freaked her family out because it's a very personal play and it was very personal coming out publicly about that.
And it freaked her parents out big time, which in turn scared her. And since then it hasn't been the same. There was a point where I said, You're not talking to me. I'm putting in all the effort. I understand [00:38:00] you more now than I did then. Sorry, I didn't understand then. I get it.
And I pushed you. I see how I pushed you away. I didn't know how to deal with these feelings. I didn't know how to deal with what I was going through, this rollercoaster of emotions. I'm sorry, but I'm here. I wanna be a part of your life. I want my kids now to be a part of your life.
Please, You can call me too. I'm tired of having the ball on my side of the court. I need you to call me sometimes. She's like, Okay. But she doesn't. I would call her after an amount of time or I would send her a letter or I would send her pictures. My wife and I send her pictures of the kids and I never get a thank you.
I never get a phone call, Hey, I got this. And it hurts right now. It really hurts. I called her to tell her some exciting news about my young daughter [00:39:00] a few months ago, and we hadn't spoken because she won't call me. But when we talk, it's fine. Everything is fine. She tells me everything that's going on. She tells me how she is really, you know?
It's just me doing all the work and I'm tired. I want her to do it. I want her to call me on my birthday, you know. That's where we are right now. It's been a big roller coaster. I mean, I was explaining the honeymoon period and things were great. Then things got a little rough, but then things were great again, and she saw my play and it was fantastic.
You know, she saw Blank when it was in Hollywood in 2010. I use an alias name for her and she came out to everyone, to the audience as her real name. And so I thought it was gonna be great. And then just things turned after Kansas City. It just hit too close to home, I guess.
And it's probably more, [00:40:00] I don't know. But I want more. I'll probably see her when I go home for the holidays.
Haley Radke: What's it like for you to put yourself out there in such a vulnerable position to the audience and the public? I mean, with your story and this piece, I'm assuming what everyone is super duper upset about is just the knowledge that you were conceived in a rape and victims often have shame, plus birth mothers have shame.
Brian Stanton: I know. Can you believe, can you imagine the shame? I know, I know. And they don't need to have that shame.
Yes, so as an artist, as a writer, as a sculptor, as a painter, whatever, you have to find it within you to not hold back. You have to find it within you to not care if you offend anybody. [00:41:00] Otherwise, you start censoring your own voice. You start censoring your own story. You start censoring your own understanding of how you are presently in this world and in your own personal environment.
So that's the first big step that you have to get over. And I was able to do that at the time because I came out of the hardcore theater training, where we wear our emotions on our sleeve and we're honest. And that's where it comes from. I did have it in the back of my mind that I can censor later if I need to, you know, but right now I'm not censoring myself.
But then, once it was out there, it was out there. Do you know? And then, Haley, I've [00:42:00] done a lot of weird [censored] on stage. I have played a lot of characters. I've done crazy things. I mean, from experimental avant-garde to classical to clean, fun comedy, whatever.
But I've done it all, and I've never been so nervous to put that pen to the paper to start writing my story. But I pushed through it and did it. And then to have to perform it and embrace it as an actor, not only as a writer, but as an actor was another big step. So, yeah, it was hugely nerve wracking. Hugely. It was just baring your soul.
But, you know, I'd tell myself I had a story to tell, if people go for it, fine, but then that's what it was. And I became obviously extremely fortunate because people related to it. But I [00:43:00] mean, I've received letters, emails, voicemails, about how Blank has affected people.
But it's funny because some of the people that are closest to me, I drove away a little bit or at certain points because it hit them so personally. I wrote something for a publication or something and I said, it's funny how I can really touch and get close to a stranger, but drive a family member away from me. Someone who I've been close to my whole life.
You know, my adoptive mom at first reacted, she didn't know what to think, but now she really appreciates it. And then It seemed my birth mother really, really enjoyed it, but then pulled away a little bit. [00:44:00] So yeah, it was interesting.
It's a risk. Art is a risk. I mean, that's what art is. You take a risk and put it out there no matter what. It could be anything. But you take that risk and put it out there, and that's what makes it art. You know, sometimes you'll hear people say, Oh, my child can do that.
Well, your child didn't do that and this person did that. They took the risk and put it out there for you to criticize it. You know, that's what makes art. So I knew the risk going into it. I guess, I don't know. But when you live it, sometimes it's harder than what you think you're getting into.
So, yeah, the play took me to places that I never thought that I would be, but I don't mean negative at all right now. I mean, I've discovered so much about myself. I've discovered so much about people. I've understood my parents more. I've understood both of my mothers a lot more. [00:45:00]
I'm a more whole human being because of it. And I'm not saying because of my play, but my play took me to a world that I didn't even know existed. In this whole world, these people have fulfilled me.
Haley Radke: Well, I don't usually do this, but it's almost on the personal side
Brian Stanton: Let’s do it! Let’s go there!
Haley Radke: Well, doing the podcast most of the time it's like 98% all about the guest. And I put a little bit of myself in there, a little bit of my story. But when I did the Season One Finale, I did share my reunion story and I did censor a little bit because I was so concerned that my birth mother would hear. We had a four-month reunion and she's cut off contact and that was, you know, over a decade ago.
So I still reach out to her regularly and I just [00:46:00] never hear anything back. But that is one of my fears, Brian, that maybe she does listen and is this the one thing that is like, now she's never gonna talk to me again, which she already doesn't talk to me. I was curious about that because you're right, putting ourselves out there in this way, it's very vulnerable and we don't know how the people around us are going to react.
Brian Stanton: Haley, if she's listening right now, she is loving your beautiful voice, first of all. You have an amazing, soothing voice. I'm sure she loves you, Haley, and listening to you. Who knows, she could just be listening in private right now and loving every minute of it. But whatever she is dealing with, she's scared to come back.
I don't know. I'm so sorry. I am fortunate that, at least [00:47:00], my mother will talk to me when I call. So when I hear that, it breaks my heart. I'm sorry.
Haley Radke: Thank you. You know, when you were talking about your reunion and how we regress back and how your birth mother was likely her 16-year-old self. And I'm picturing my first reunion and my first meeting with my birth mother and it was the same. She was 15 and so, right, if we get stuck there, we get stuck there. And it's very hard to move forward without addressing these things.
Brian Stanton: I know. So is this helping you, like you doing these interviews and interviewing all of us adoptees and therapists, is this helping you?
Haley Radke: It's free therapy every week, man, it's awesome. Especially when I interview therapists and they give me free therapy.
Brian Stanton: Oh, I bet! Oh, maybe I should start a podcast for therapists.
Haley Radke: Well, I am in reunion with my [00:48:00] dad and that's almost seven years now, and that's like a great, healthy, good relationship.
Brian Stanton: Oh Haley, that's great.
Haley Radke: Yeah. So it's not like all doom and gloom with me, but.
Brian Stanton: Well, so it's funny because the first thing that we think about is our mothers, I think. I mean, there's nothing more powerful than the mother/child relationship, that mother/child connection. And I think that's why so many people identify with the adoptee's story, because I would perform Blank in front of people who had no connection to adoption.
And I'd hear from them and I'd hear their personal stories about their relationship with their parents, or their father left them when they were six, or their mother got sick and passed. It all relates to a larger narrative of the mother/child relationship.
I mean, it's in all [00:49:00] the mythology, that's the connection. In Blank that's why I bring up Oedipus, which is the most obvious one, I guess. I think sometimes what gets lost is what about the father? What does that say about who we are? And what does that connection mean?
I personally the past couple years have actually wanted to put a face to my father. I know that sounds crazy, but you know, I'm gonna go back to the ghost kingdom, to the fantasy world. And my mom remembers two of the guys, two of the three guys, and knew their names. And one of them was in prison and was on the Missouri Most Wanted list.
And the other guy was a cop. I mean, oh my gosh, this is a whole ‘nother story. We could do another hour about fathers. So if you do a season about fathers, I have a whole story for you.
Haley Radke: I'm happy to have you back anytime.
Brian Stanton: But my [00:50:00] point is that my fantasy land became a monster when it was about my father. My father was a monster. I had these monster fantasies and that's not healthy, especially after I've gone through my reunion and gone through all these adoption support experiences with adoption support organizations. I'm like, I can't do it. I need to put a human face to it.
So I was reaching out and I talked to the guy in prison who ended up not being my father, which was a big surprise to my birth mother because apparently I looked like him. But yeah, I was going down that journey for a while. But the other guy who's a cop died, who could be my father right now..
I'm on Ancestry, [00:51:00], I'm on 23andMe, I'm on FTDNA, and I'm doing all that hoping that there's gonna be that one close cousin that gets on, that I can for sure say who my father is. But either way, what I've gone through has humanized my father. No matter what bad choices he made in the past, it has humanized my father and that has put me at peace.
And if this cop who passed away tragically is my father, then, you know, there's a point where I need to say, I need to bury you, as well, and come to terms with that. If that makes any sense at all. I'm a father now, so, you know, I need to find that father within me and always keep it, right?
So there's a part of me that says I'm gonna bury you for now. You are human to me, whoever it is that I'm speaking to, of course I'm [00:52:00] personifying it through this man who passed, and if you decide to rise from the dead and somehow come into my life, whether it's through his kids or grandkids, then I will welcome that fully.
But right now, I may need to bury that side and accept what I experienced and finally discovering a human side to him.
Haley Radke: Well, thank you for sharing that. Let's just talk briefly about healing through creativity and what being an actor is like for you and being able to become these different characters.
You addressed that a little bit earlier, but can you talk a little bit about that and also with the view in mind of the listener and how often we're like, I'm not creative or I'm not, you know. But I feel that creativity is so important for releasing those [00:53:00] emotions that we might not have words for, right? Like your uncontrollable sobbing when you get this letter and those kinds of things. So can you speak to that a little bit?
Brian Stanton: Absolutely. I, um. Oh, gosh, where do I start? Yes, I'm an actor. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. No, no, it's funny because yeah, uh, no, it's a big part of my play for a reason. I'm an actor and, Haley. Okay. Nancy Verrier punched me in the face. Figuratively, not literally.
Haley Radke: Oh, that would've been such a great story.
Brian Stanton: I know, I know, right? So at this CUB retreat, Nancy Verrier spoke, and so I'm, you know, real “primal wound." I'm sure all your guests mention the primal wound. Has every single one of your guests mentioned the primal wound?
Haley Radke: Like 80%.
Brian Stanton: Yeah, I know. Okay, so let me add to that. [00:54:00] So I'm sitting at CUB. This was even before I performed and my first time at one of these retreats, let alone any kind of support group or adoption, family, therapist, whatever.
And Nancy is talking. She was talking about “the chameleon.” Sometimes adoptees have a tough time ordering at a restaurant 'cause they can't decide, like they think there's a wrong answer. Or they go into a museum and they see an art piece and they say, I like that. But they can't fully explain why they like it, because there may be a wrong answer with what they say.
And then she starts talking about being in a room full of people and I'm totally paraphrasing here. Okay. And this is how I heard it: About saying something wrong to another person and not gaining their acceptance, right? So the adoptee kind of takes on this chameleon [00:55:00] nature and can size up a room and say, Okay, this is who I need to be at this moment to gain the acceptance of these people.
And I mean, the room started spinning and I crouched over on my knees, breathing heavily. And this sweet young birth mother, like a recent birth mother, I think she was in her twenties, leaned over and started tapping me on the shoulder and said, Is all this hitting home with you? And I literally yell, She's talking about me, man! She's talking about me, man!
You know, it's like that right person to be and that right thing to say. And because we don't wanna be rejected. So obviously, I'm revealing to you and our listeners that I was the pleasing adoptee, that I really didn't want to deal with rejection and had to please everybody. [00:56:00]
That's part of the reason why I'm an actor, because a) I know who I can be to be this character, right, and b) I like being accepted. Do you know? That's where it has led me. So adoption has a big part of being why I became an actor. So every character that I do is an absolute blast. I love it. So that's, I think, why I became an artist.
But then when I wanted to tell my own story, obviously, that was a whole different avenue. And we all have our stories, man.
Haley Radke: And yet, even in your play, you play like a ton of characters, not just yourself.
Brian Stanton: Yes. And that was purposeful.
Haley Radke: How many?
Brian Stanton: Uh, I dunno. Like 11, including myself. Something like that. Yeah. And I was very physical with it because I wanted and I do have [00:57:00] a slight exaggeration of all the characters that I've played, and they're all based on people that I knew. Um, a slight exaggeration because when I was just Brian, I just wanted to be as real as possible.
Do you know what I mean? Whereas all these other masks that we wear in other social situations are slightly exaggerated and slightly fake. You know? But what is the real, essential Brian? And that's what I was hoping to somewhat gain from that piece, subtle though, it might have been. But you're right, we all have our stories to tell.
And, and you've interviewed fantastic people. I mean, Gareth, I looked at Gareth's art and it's amazing, you know.
Haley Radke: I know, I ordered a print. I can't wait.
Brian Stanton: Oh, you did? Oh my God. I would love to talk to that guy. Because I’m a big fan on David Lynch as well, and Deb's show sounds fabulous, you know.
Haley Radke: Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. And then Kristen Garaffo talked about you. She came to [00:58:00] Indiana to see your show.
Brian Stanton: And that’s because of Ridghaus, too. And Ridghaus is a great friend of mine. Yeah. And Kristen's play. I was fortunate enough to read an earlier draft of her script, and I can't wait to be able to see it.
And people out here in Los Angeles, Jeanette Yoffe and a woman named Nicole Radmacher. So we put together an art festival, the Celia Center Art Festival, and Celia Center is a nonprofit organization started by Jeanette, named after her birth mother and there were three plays there.
We had an art gallery and Brianna Spencer did a spoken word thing, you know. And so all this art by these adoptees, whether it directly had something to do with adoption or not, or they're just adoptees expressing themselves. So, you know, all these local, wonderful voices, and all of us have that.
And if [00:59:00] you just had listeners, if you just have it in you to just take a risk and start by putting something down on paper, even if it's just for you, you know? And then if you feel like, Hey, I wanna release this and put it out. Do it. I would highly encourage you because we need those voices.
You know, I learned about the original birth certificate thing. I didn't know that it was illegal for me to possess my original birth certificate. I got lucky. But these voices help fix that narrative that the world is living in, you know. And I really think we're starting to wake up.
I really, really believe that. And it takes our voices, whether it's a documentary, whether it's a keynote speaker, or whether it's art, because art reaches us at a different level, a different emotional level. It digs, it kind of hits your soul. It digs a little deeper. [01:00:00]
And whether you say you can understand it or not, it hits you on it on that level that maybe words can't explain. And that's the power of art. You're doing your podcast, you're taking a risk right now because you expressed, is my birth mother listening right now? And what does she think?
You're taking a risk by putting your voice out there and having a chat with another person who's taking a risk, putting their voice out there. And, you know, that's what it is. I think Radiohead said, Stop whispering, start shouting. You know, it’s get your voice out there and whether your voice is through drawing, sculpture, paint, colors, dance, music, whatever it is, like, put it out there, man.
Don't be afraid to fail. There's no such thing as failure. Samuel Beckett said something, I'm gonna paraphrase this 'cause I'm probably gonna [01:01:00] butcher it, but he said like, If you fail once, go back and fail harder. You know, like, do it again. You know, just do it again.
Haley Radke: What a great call to action. I love that. Thank you. Okay, well, I know we could talk forever, but that was a great place to pause and switch to recommended resources. First of all, you are performing Blank again very soon, so can you tell us about that? Because people have to see it. I loved it. I loved it.
Brian Stanton: Yes. This is gonna be an amazing event, you guys. It's Missouri. My home state has finally opened birth records. State Representative Don Phillips helped push this bill through with the help of so many people. You know what? I probably shouldn't even single out names because there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people behind this in every state that help motivate this. [01:02:00] So on January 1, 2018, adult adoptees can request their original birth certificate without a court order. And so we are gonna celebrate on January 1 in the capital of Missouri, Jefferson City. There's going to be some workshops, there's gonna be a couple keynote speakers.
Definitely State Representative Don Phillips will be speaking, and I think Adam Pertman will be coming, and people are gonna be getting their birth certificates, so they're gonna have groups. At night I will be performing Blank in the capital of my home state. So I am thrilled and honored to be a part of this.
It's gonna be an amazing event, man. My first show was 2010 in April, and now almost nine years later, I'm in my home state celebrating our adoptee rights. So this is gonna be January 1, 2018. [01:03:00] Oh my goodness. To learn more about the event, it's called “Breaking the Seal.” If you wanna come and celebrate with us.
Haley Radke: I'm just breaking in because I want to let you know the website is missouriadopteerightsmovement.com.
Brian Stanton: You can even just come and see the play. I think they're selling individual tickets to the play. I'm not taking any money on this. Everything they receive will go to their organization, which is putting on this event and which has obviously helped give us our right.
So, come see us. I also have it on my webpage, thebrianstanton.com. So you can also follow a link to get all the information for that. But it's gonna be a party, man. We're gonna celebrate the New Year in an amazing way,
Haley Radke: And you can bring your birth certificate and it won't be illegal for you to have it. Perfect.
Brian Stanton: I know, I know. And I'm still requesting the original one. [01:04:00] Yes. Just 'cause I wanna do it, you know what I mean?
Haley Radke: Oh, that's amazing. Yes. I encourage everyone that is in the area or you're nearby, near enough to travel, please go and see it because, yeah, I was so moved. Yours was the first performance of its kind that I've ever seen really addressing adoptee issues and so it was just incredible.
Okay. And now what would you like to recommend to us?
Brian Stanton: You have so many amazing recommendations, and they've all touched me in so many ways. A musician that I love, her name is Mary Gauthier. Uh, it's spelled G-A-U-T-H-I-E-R, but it's pronounced Go-shay. She's an incredible woman, man. Adopted, brought up in a pretty tough family, a tough, tough relationship with her father.
She ended up running away, living on the streets, became an addict. And then she [01:05:00] sobered up, became a chef in Louisiana, and then all of a sudden, like in her thirties, she picks up a guitar and starts playing. And now she is a folk musician, kind of Americana. People have described her as like the female Bob Dylan.
But she wrote an amazing album called The Foundling, which takes you through her experience as an adoptee. And it's so raw and so honest and so amazing, and her voice is just raw. When you're listening to it, it's not fake, man. It's just beautiful. And when I first heard about it and I got it, I swear I sat down and I listened to the whole album straight through twice in a row. It was just so moving.
And right now, her new album (Rifles and Rosary Beads) she wrote with wounded veterans. And they each [01:06:00] had a say in the songwriting and she put it out. But that's who she is, man. I mean, she's constantly trying to touch humanity and understand humanity and who we are in this world. And she's got that drive from adoption, really. I mean, I know that drives her. Uh, even though not everything is about that, it's about her life and who she is, and trying to understand everybody else. And I would highly recommend it because she's a beautiful person and a beautiful artist. And music, you know music, it touches us, man.
Haley Radke: Oh, what a wonderful recommendation. I definitely wanna check her out. I know I already follow her on Twitter and stuff. But I don't think I've ever listened to her music. So I will.
Brian Stanton: Definitely start with The Foundling because that's her story. She has this beautiful instrumental piece about her phone call with her birth mother, and she's just talking with her playing music behind, and it's like, oh my gosh, it's [01:07:00] amazing.
Haley Radke: So, okay, if I need to feel some feelings, I will put that on.
Brian Stanton: Do it, girl. Do it!
Haley Radke: Well, thank you so much. Where can we connect with you online? Brian, you already gave us your website. The brian stanton.com.
Brian Stanton: Yes, thebrianstanton.com and I'm on Facebook. You can hit me up. I actually also have a Blank page, which sometimes I forget about. In fact, I don't know if I've actually put the Missouri information on that Blank page, but it's definitely on my homepage. So you can look me up: Brian Stanton, B-R-I-A-N. Stanton. And my website, we do our best to keep that up updated.
Haley Radke: Awesome. I will link to all of those things in the show notes. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us and being so vulnerable. I really appreciate it.
Brian Stanton: It's been fantastic. Thank you for what you do. Thank you.
Haley Radke: Did you know I have a monthly newsletter? [01:08:00] It's new. There's only been one, so far, and I'm sending my next one in just a few days. It's just gonna be a place for me to share my personal thoughts with you and behind the scenes news of the podcast, what's coming up for Season Four, all that good stuff.
So if you'd like to be among the first to be in the know, you can sign up on adopteeson.com/newsletter. And speaking of behind the scenes, I wanted to let you know that Season Three is going to be 15 episodes long. So there's just a couple more weeks to go before the finale.
This episode has been brought to you by my amazing Patreon supporters. Thank you for standing with me. Thank you for helping me to bring you these episodes each week. I couldn't do it without you.
One last thing, I would like to ask you a little favor. Would you take the time to share this episode with just one person today? [01:09:00] Perhaps you know of someone who was adopted in Missouri. They'd probably enjoy hearing Brian's story and learning about the newly open records in their state.
Thank you for listening. Let's talk again next Friday.
Brian Stanton: And you bleep out, you bleep out cursings too. I see.
Haley Radke: I do, I do bleep cursing. And, um, that can be the Derek Frank rule. Um, I'll add that to my list.
Brian Stanton: That's great. I love it.
