58 Relationships - What's it like being married to an adoptee?
/Transcript
Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/58
Haley Radke: [00:00:00] You are listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm your host, Haley Radke, and this is a bonus episode where I interview my husband and we reveal the topic for Season 4. Nick gives some insight on what it's like to be married to an adopted person. So I hope that you will find that helpful today.
We recorded this in our living room, and if you hear some rustling, I'm very sorry. I want you to picture my cute dog snuggling up. I know it's just such a big no-no for sound quality, but I needed some comfort as Nick reveals some painful truths of the ways he was impacted during my reunion with my first father.
Let's listen in.
Haley Radke: Hi, honey.
Nick Radke: Hi.
Haley Radke: Do you wanna say who you are?
Nick Radke: Sure. My name is Nick. I am Haley's husband. I'm your husband.[00:01:00]
Haley Radke: Sounds official. When did we meet and when did we get married? How long have we been married?
Nick Radke: October, no, sorry. We met in September of 2001 at school and we started dating in October of that year, and we were married on August 7, 2004. So we're coming up on 14 years.
Haley Radke: Yeah, I forgot that.
Nick Radke: Yeah.
Haley Radke: It's been a while. I was 18 when we met. And you were
Nick Radke: We were both 18. You had just turned 18. So yeah, our adult lives have been together.
Haley Radke: Okay, so I asked you on because this is a sneak preview into Season 4 because we are gonna be talking about relationships in all varieties: intimate partner relationships, but also sibling/parent, as a parent and with our first parents. [00:02:00] I'm gonna have someone on to talk about their relationship with their coworkers. I mean, we're talking about all kinds of different relationships.
What is it like being married to an adopted person? What are the weird quirks that you think I bring to this relationship as the special basket case that I am?
Nick Radke: Well, when we first started dating, I remember you telling me, I think pretty early on, that you were adopted and It was kind of just an interesting fact at that moment in time. I remember thinking, oh, okay, that's interesting. I've known a couple people that were adopted and it made no difference, really, to me. But I think you had also made it pretty clear early on that you did not know either of your birth parents. [00:03:00]
So I just thought, well, that's part of your life and that you've known your adoptive parents your whole life, and those are your parents, and that's just how things are and that's great. And I hadn't had any close encounters with anyone that's adopted, just kind of had acquaintances, so didn't know if there's anything more that I needed to know. I thought you would probably tell me if there was, but otherwise life moves on.
And it did at first, while even getting married, there was really no change or any quirks, or however you put it. When the records were open, that's when I recall first discussing it again and how you were interested in learning about or getting these records and finding the information. [00:04:00] And I was there ready to support you.
I also just thought, I'm here if you need me. This is interesting and I'm not sure where we go from here. And I definitely didn't realize or had no thought of what kind of an emotional rollercoaster it might turn into.
Haley Radke: Okay. So we were already married when I found my birth mother,
Nick Radke: I'm pretty sure. Yeah, definitely.
Haley Radke: And so, I shared that story in Season 1 in the Finale about meeting her and being in a relationship for a brief period of time, and then she cut off contact. But what was your experience with that? Like, I remember getting that email and from her and I think we might have met that same day, like it was fast.
Nick Radke: Yeah, I think it was, you talked about, okay, I want to go meet her and her husband, go to their house and meet them. [00:05:00] And I remember thinking, whoa, already this seems quick and I have no idea what we're gonna talk about. And you were insistent on me being there, which made sense that I was there to support you. But I kind of anticipated it being one of the most awkward experiences ever.
Haley Radke: I think it was.
Nick Radke: Yeah,
Haley Radke: To be fair, you were right.
Nick Radke: It was. I mean, both of us being introverts, maybe even more so back then.
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Nick Radke: And so, thank goodness, her husband was very friendly and managed to break the ice somehow. I don't remember exactly how, but
Haley Radke: Yeah. He was chatty.
Nick Radke: I remember him talking more than any of the rest of us,
Haley Radke: Like put together.
Nick Radke: Yeah. Because I sure didn't know what to say.
Haley Radke: We were really young.
Nick Radke: Yeah.
Haley Radke: We were super young. [00:06:00]
Nick Radke: Yeah. I remember kind of doing this all over again when we met her parents. That was even, possibly, more awkward. I dunno.
Haley Radke: That was the worst. Oh my gosh. Yeah. No one knew what to say. Yeah, it was super weird. And that was her childhood home, right. So I was like inside melting down. Watching me go through this reunion, what was that like? I don't feel I included you very much in it, and when it kind of fell apart at the end, I don't know, I just never had a period at the end. There was no this is over. It just was like she didn't wanna talk anymore, but I thought we would resolve it and get back into relationship, but it just never did. So, what was your experience of that on your side? [00:07:00]
Nick Radke: After meeting her and her husband, and then meeting more of the extended family, I don't remember having that many more interactions with her. I know you did on your own. Quite a bit from what I remember, or maybe just at the beginning it was quite a bit.
And then again with her dad, I know you met with your grandpa a fair bit. I guess I didn't really have an understanding that things were a little bit rocky for a while there, or maybe didn't realize you had met with her fairly often and then it just got less and less. And I think I thought for a while that it would become resolved and that the relationship would continue. [00:08:00] It didn't, but then you continued to have a relationship with your grandpa for a while there.
I really didn't know how to support you. It was harder on you than I realized, and I feel like maybe I didn't realize it until afterwards how important it was to you at the time. I think I felt that you were disappointed and that that was about it. And I think it wasn't until your reunion with your dad that I became more aware of how, I don’t know if devastating is the right word, but how hard it was that you still don't have that relationship with her.
Haley Radke: Well, I don't know if I really knew how hard it was either. Like, I think I blocked out a lot of that pain and it kind of came out over the years. But yeah, I don't think I had the words to express it anyway.
Okay, so, you mentioned reunion with my dad. [00:09:00] So I have been in reunion with him and his wife and my three siblings for almost eight years, and you've had a bigger part in this reunion. You've seen it way more up close, including therapy appointments, with me and with them. So do you wanna just kind of give your experience of this, this time around.
Nick Radke: It was different in many ways. It's long distance. He's not close. It's a full-day drive or a plane right away. So the first interactions were, instead of face-to-face, over the phone or Skype. I can't remember what we did first.
Haley Radke: We did Facebook. I don't know if I talked on the phone. I think we did Skype first.
Nick Radke: Again, awkward. Yeah. [00:10:00] And then again, early on, you were ready to meet them, which I was a little more prepared for from the last time. But still a little surprised how quickly you wanted to fly out to meet them. But I was much more prepared to be involved and be there. Like we had agreed, both of us, that I definitely needed to be there the first time and that was a good thing.
When we went there, if I remember right. I think I was only there for a couple days. And then you stayed on your own for a couple days longer. And that surprised me. I remember asking you several times, are you sure you're okay to be here on your own? You just met these people in person. They seem really nice, but you just met them.
So yeah, I think we, well, me anyways, probably both of us, had learned some things from the first experience that we wanted to do differently. [00:11:00]
I was very, very surprised when you found him. First of all, that you found him and that there was even a chance of there being a relationship there. I had something set in my mind that whoever this person was, we're not gonna find him. If we do, he's gonna have no interest. And it's not been anywhere close to that.
It's also been different because your dad and his wife have three kids, too. So that was also very different. And I think, for me, that almost made it easier in a way. It's almost more comfortable that way. Like, in awkward situations when you've got, now they weren't super young, but when you have kids around, sometimes it's just, I don't know, just easier. You can just talk to the kids then and it's less intense maybe. [00:12:00]
So that was kind of nice and it was really cool that they, I feel like they opened up to us pretty early on and were welcoming as well.
Haley Radke: Yeah. What was it like when I was first in reunion with them?
Nick Radke: Oh yeah. Well, this is what I said to you before. So yeah, the word I used is that you were a little bit obsessed with them. With him especially, so like, life stopped whenever he would message on Facebook or text, if he called, then it didn't really matter what was happening. Like we need to stop right now and Hailey needs to talk to him now.
Haley Radke: Okay. Well just like that's the honeymoon stage of reunion. And so, yes, it's weird.
Nick Radke: Which I had no idea about before. [00:13:00] Obviously that would be something actually. Okay, so from a non-adopted perspective here, in a relationship with someone who is, when that reunion happens to know about this, because it was weird and at first I like sort of tried to understand that, okay, obviously he's very important and you've missed a lifetime with him, so you wanna learn about him and spend time.
But it continued further than I thought. And I remember thinking a few months in, like, this guy is more important to you than I am. Like, what's going on here? So that was a little bit tough, and that would've been something I think would've been helpful to know. I dunno how I would've known this before, but for someone else who would be experiencing that.
Haley Radke: Oh, well, okay, so I was seeing June then, my therapist, after a while because it got to the point where it was not healthy. [00:14:00] You felt less than. You know, like you weren't the number one, and so June made us rightsize everything and that was so hard and so painful, like so necessary. I mean, I think that's what got us through. I don't know what else would've pushed me to do that besides a professional's help.
Because you are so obsessed with making up for lost time and finding out everything about each other, and you're just building a friendship, you know, basically as adults it was hard. I mean, I'm sure it was hard on the kids too, and, and on his relationship with his wife and, you know, like it was hard on everyone.
It's so unnatural to be reconnecting as adults. [00:15:00] It's so good that you point that out because, honestly, I think professional help is sort of what's needed to navigate reunion in a healthy manner. I mean, don't you think June saved it? She saved us.
Nick Radke: Yeah. Totally, yeah. She had a lot of great ideas and understanding about it. That was helpful. The other thing was that it took me a while to begin to understand. I think you had a fear, maybe, that the rejection you had experienced was gonna happen again, and that was never a thought in my mind.
Like it wasn't as black and white as well. If I missed this phone call, that's it. We're done. He's never gonna call me back. But sometimes it felt that way. Like it was so important to connect with him and to not disappoint him, I think. And I think maybe part of that was you had explained to me that you were worried that it could happen again. [00:16:00]
And I didn't feel like that was going to happen, but I began to understand more and more why you might feel that way. And I think because I had always felt that the relationship with your mom was going to come back together again. So I didn't consider that an all-out rejection. Maybe that's what it was. So that's why I didn't consider it to happen again.
Haley Radke: I think maybe only in the last year I've finally been like, okay, he's not gonna leave. Like, it's taken me that long. Like, I still even, you know, a year or two ago would be like, oh my gosh, what if I say the wrong thing? [00:17:00] And now I finally feel like, well, if I say the wrong thing, he'll tell me it's wrong and we'll work it out. But I still thought like a year ago easily, that he'd be like, all right, we're done.
Nick Radke: Wow.
Haley Radke: It is this intense fear of rejection. I think almost all adoptees, I don't wanna say all of us, but we're born with that. We are born rejected, and so there's something in our, you know, spirit that's like, well, even your mom didn't want you. So that is how we live out our life, right?
Nick Radke: I have a question for you. In this reunion with your dad, do you think it has been helpful to have some geographical distance, in that maybe there's not as much expectation to spend time face to face together now that the relationship is as far along? [00:18:00] I'm not saying you want the distance, but maybe in some ways it could have been helpful or
Haley Radke: Well, I mean, in the first couple years we didn't have kids yet, and I traveled there very frequently. I think over the years that has probably helped rightsize the relationship a little quicker. I definitely don't like being far away. I feel like we don't see each other, I'm talking about the whole family, we don't see each other that often. Well, and the thing with my birth mom, I mean, you know, as you alluded to, and I shared this in my story in the Finale, like she lives in this city and so sometimes when we're out I will look for her. Like, she doesn't live on our side of the city, she's a good 20-minute drive away. [00:19:00] I often think, what if I bump into her? That's still in the back of my mind, and even now, 10 plus years after, I haven't seen her.
So, what do you think that you have done that's been helpful for me? Like, I think you've been very supportive and especially in reunion, right? You were just saying how you kind of felt like you got bumped down to second place when I first met my dad but, you know, we really navigated through that. What are some things that you think that you were doing that were helpful in that situation?
Nick Radke: Well,
Haley Radke: I should give you the list. Well, you were totally willing to go to counseling with me.
Nick Radke: Yeah.
Haley Radke: [00:20:00] And, you know, we say that we went to counseling together and we did a couple sessions with them, but really it was very few that we did together, but they were of such significance and impact. It changed the trajectory. So I think your willingness to do that and help me implement the things that June advised us to do was really helpful.
Nick Radke: Yeah. I think what I've tried to do, I don't know, with some success and some failure probably, is to be okay with me not knowing what to do. Maybe it still is that way. It's an unknown area. It's still new to me even though it's been a while. But for me to be able to make sure I'm willing to take a step back and not have answers and just be willing to listen and be there for you and support you. [00:21:00]
Because there are still times that you'll have certain emotions or feelings or opinions that I don't understand, but I think I've come to the point where I'm okay with that. I'm trying to understand, but also to understand from a non-adopted perspective. To truly understand what it's like to be adopted, I never ever will.
And I don't know when I kind of realized that, but I have, and I think that, for me anyways, has been helpful to try not to necessarily put myself in your shoes or even think that I know what it's like because I don't and I won't and I never will. And that's okay. And I can still be helpful and supportive in other ways, I think. [00:22:00]
Haley Radke: You talked about when we were first dating and I told you I was adopted and you were like, okay, cool, whatever, to coming to this point where you're like, I'm never gonna know what it's like to be adopted, and yet you have a deeper understanding, I think, because of what I do. Right? I kind of talk about this all the time, and you've listened to a lot of the podcast and you've seen some of my writing online. You've seen some of the interactions. What are some of those pieces that helped you gain a bit of more understanding of my perspective?
Nick Radke: Yeah, the podcast itself has helped me understand, or get a little more understanding I should say, because then I hear stories upon stories of other people that have similar, not experiences, but I think similar emotions to you. [00:23:00]
Haley Radke: So you're like, it's not just her.
Nick Radke: Yeah.
Haley Radke: Okay.
Nick Radke: Right. Well, no, kind of honestly. A little bit.
Haley Radke: I know.
Nick Radke: So yeah, that's helped. And then just us talking about it and reading some stuff that you've written. Early on in your reunion with your dad, you were writing your blog for a while there. And even that helped me kind of process it a bit too because you would talk about what was going on and what emotions you were experiencing.
We wouldn't necessarily talk about it, but you would write it and I could see it there and we would talk about it too. But I think that, through the podcast and through social media, there's kind of more of a broader scope. [00:24:00] I think too that you don't want to just flood me with adoption talk 24/7 because, maybe you could if you wanted to, but you know that I'll go a little bit crazy if we do that.
Haley Radke: This has been a lot about me and I'm curious, what should I be doing? What should we, as adopted people, be doing as a support for you, a non-adopted person? Now let me just pause before you answer that. I feel like I am myself a roller coaster of emotions. I have been through two bouts of depression, I think, with you. I have been suicidal. We were engaged, or maybe we're just dating at that point. I've been through a ton of different counselors and psychologists.
I'm the whole package, rollercoaster-ride-of-emotions person and you are very steady, even keel. [00:25:00] I feel like your family is super healthy and tight knit and, you know, you have a wonderful background and upbringing. And I'm just challenged. So I think that's part of what makes us work because you're stable for me.
But as living with someone like me, what can I do that would be helpful for you to be on this ride together? Or maybe I'm doing things already, maybe I'm already doing things, right? What am I doing?
Nick Radke: No, yeah. You are more so now than early on. What you'll do sometimes, I've noticed, is, because I wanna make sure I'm supporting you and I'm helpful in whatever way I can be, but sometimes even just to tell me: You know, I just need some time or some space or this is kind of just something I'm going through. It's okay. [00:26:00
Like you might get emotional about something that I don't understand, and I feel bad for you and I want to help you. And sometimes you want me to and other times you just kind of say, You know, I just need to talk to someone else or my counselor about this, or I just need some time, or things like that.
I guess just to know where you're at because otherwise if it's some tough emotions or, I don't know if tough's the right word. What I see as you being sad or disappointed or something like that, that I wanna make sure I jump in and come to the rescue and help. But I don't think that's always helpful, and you've made me understand that, sometimes more so, that it's not something that I can help with or that I'll be able to do much about, which is okay. [00:27:00]
I think that we went to, I guess would therapy be the right word?, early on. I was pretty unsure about it, but that was useful. So maybe that's flipping the coin more that the non-adopted person should make sure they're doing that. But I guess just bringing in your partner to help when it's needed and then understanding when there's not much they can help with. And then that's okay. It doesn't really make much sense, but that's
Haley Radke: No, I think it does. I think it really does. Like there are times when I need you to get it. I need you to understand this is why I'm losing my mind right now. Because it's easy for the rest of the world to be like, what's the big deal? Like, you have a set of parents, [00:28:00] Why is this extra set, you know, so important?
Like, it's really easy for us to be dismissed over and over and over throughout the day and triggered. I think you have really had a huge shift in understanding, I mean, with me, right? I think we've both kind of come outta the fog together, kind of, me a little bit ahead 'cause I'm the one experiencing it first and then you're sort of learning.
But even on Sunday, in church at the end of the service, I was like, so how many times did they say the word adoption this morning? And you knew, you knew exactly how many times because now you hear the things that trigger me. And so I think you've had such a willingness to learn those things alongside me and listen to hours and hours of my podcast.
Nick Radke: Full disclosure, I am not caught up. [00:29:00] I'm a little behind, but I'm doing my best.
Haley Radke: There's so many other good podcasts I tell you to listen to before mine.
Nick Radke: Yeah, which I don't. Yours is the only one I listen to.
Haley Radke: Okay. Well, my show is not made specifically for you, so I'm not offended that you don't listen to every episode. But I think it's important for me to be able to express my needs to you and, I mean, this in every relationship, right? You're not a mind-reader. So how can I expect you to know what I need if I don't tell you? And vice versa, right? I think it goes both ways.
I feel like I can easily dominate all the needs section of our relationship, though, right? So is there anything you wanna say about that? About how do you bring it back to: Okay. It's not always about you, Haley. [00:30:00] Like, I have some stuff too about whatever, I don't know, work or you've never had issues, but like if you did.
Nick Radke: Yeah, I think that's something I can work on still, but that's something, in the early days of reunion, that I could have expressed a little better. I was really worried about hurting you any more than you could potentially have been 'cause it was a pretty sensitive time.
But those feelings that I referred to earlier of thinking, wow, you're spending so much time with your dad or talking about your dad, or it was tough because I truly did feel like I was knocked down a notch. And I don't think I was comfortable. I mean, obviously, eventually I was comfortable enough to express that but I could have maybe done that a little earlier. [00:31:00] Maybe even for us to just talk about it a little bit might have been helpful.
I think just to make sure that you're heard, as well, on the other side, on the non-adopted side, if I need your help or your support, to be willing to jump in there. And that's not really a you-thing, that's more of a me-thing to know when I should do that, but I think we're there now.
Haley Radke: I think we're in a pretty good place, I don't think
Nick Radke: Yeah. And, well, like you said, you have so many outlets now where you have opportunities to talk about those feelings or just about adoption or just about your experience. Which is awesome. I think that's been super helpful for both of us.
Haley Radke: Oh yeah. I feel like just over the course of the podcast, in the last couple years, I have processed so much more than in the rest of my whole life, and I'm gonna be 35 this year. [00:32:00] So like 33 years of issues. And then processing them in the last couple years with lots to go.
Nick Radke: Yeah, and I'm excited that you've had some opportunity recently to even have some face-to-face conversations with people in our area and also not. It has been a great experience from my perspective. It just brings life to you to talk with, to someone with the same or similar experiences, which is something I can't offer. And that's fine. And that's super helpful for both of us, I think, for you to have that.
Haley Radke: So, we're gonna wrap this up. [00:33:00] The takeaways are that everyone should be in therapy, and you should go with your partner, and you should find some adoptees to talk about everything with because your partner will never fully get it. And they don't wanna hear about it all the time. Sometimes it's okay. Is that our big takeaway?
Nick Radke: Yeah, totally. And therapy was not, I don't know, I remember going four or five times maybe. I mean, it's gonna be different for everyone, but it doesn't necessarily have to be this huge time commitment. Yeah, I agree with those takeaways.
Haley Radke: And it's not freaky.
Nick Radke: No.
*Haley Radke: It's not like one hour of weirdness. It's just having a conversation with someone else there to sort of mediate.
Nick Radke: And you did a great job finding someone good. I think she had some experience with this. Because I'm sure there's probably many people that don't, so that might be kind of tricky. [00:34:00] And learn the lingo because I didn't know about “out of the fog” and “triggering.” I had no idea what that meant.
And so yeah, you just said that I'm more aware, like, we'll go to a movie or church or some sort of event. And it's not even intentional anymore, my mind is just tuned into whenever they're gonna talk about adoption. So that's helpful because, at least then afterwards, I can kind of say, are you good? Do we need to talk about it? How are you feeling about this?
And then it helps me, rather than a few years ago just going to something that I thought was relatively pleasant and you were kind of angry after. And I didn't know why.
Haley Radke: [00:35:00] I'm laughing 'cause it's so true. We'll be watching TV and then I will just get so mad because there'll be something about adoption that is completely false, and now you get it, right? But it used to be, like, what is your problem? And I didn't even know how to explain it.
Like I didn't know. I didn't know what was triggering me, but now I do. So thanks, honey. Is there anything else you want to say before we say goodbye. And wait, is it how much you're looking forward to Season 4? You just can't wait. You gotta get caught up with Season 3.
Nick Radke: Yeah. So yeah, totally. Keep listening. I don't know if you're gonna throw this in there, but
Haley Radke: Send me some money. Is that what you're gonna say?
Nick Radke: No, I'm gonna say that you work really hard on it but you do thoroughly enjoy it. From my perspective, you are really blessing other people with this podcast. However, on the flip side, I feel like this community that you're blessing is also giving back to you in a big way too. Thank you for doing that which I cannot. [00:36:00]
Haley Radke: Thanks, honey.
Okay, friend. Next week, Season 4 starts. I'm excited about all the different guests I have booked. I have names that you have heard of, names that I will be introducing you to. We even have a topic that's very sensitive, which we will be doing anonymously, and a huge variety of topics all under the umbrella of relationships.
I know you're going to find it valuable. I can't wait to share what I've recorded. Also, I will be continuing on in the Healing Series. I have a couple of new therapists to introduce to you very soon who are experts in this field of adoption and recovering from adoption trauma. [00:37:00]
So many awesome things are coming up, and I want to tell you, I could not do the show weekly without the financial support I get from people who are doing one-time donations and my monthly supporters. I just thank you so much. You are keeping this show going, and I thank you for standing with me and thank you for saying it with your money, your actual hard-earned money. I can't believe it.
You're saying that this is important and it's valuable and you want it to keep going. I am so grateful to you for that. Words cannot express how thankful I am. So if that's something, if you want to stand with other adoptees, you can make a one-time donation at adopteeson.com or partner up with me monthly, adopteeson.com/partner, and all the details are available there.
Come and connect with me! Adopteeson.com/newsletter has our monthly newsletter subscription link, and all of our social media accounts are linked there [00:38:00] as well to search @adopteeson on Instagram or Twitter. And you can also look for me, Haley Radke, on your favorite socials. Thank you so much for listening.
Let's talk again next Friday when we kick off Season 4, Relationships, together.
I mean, basically, it feels like every day you come home from work or else we're chatting, and I'll be like, Oh my gosh, look at this message I just got. Oh my gosh, look at this email I just got! Or, I just got a new Patreon supporter! It feels like close to every day that I get to show you that.
Haley Radke: [00:39:00] And so, I hope that it is helpful for you to know how important this project of mine is, because it does take away a lot of time with you and the family to work on it. Thanks, love. Thanks for talking to me. And if you wanna tweet, no? Okay. Okay. That's a no.
Nick Radke: Uh, yeah.
