35 Jemma - Adopted Back
/Transcript
Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/35
Jemma Sullivan: I can't say anything about that because it was illegal.
Haley Radke:* Okay!
Jemma Sullivan: So, that's right. I am not ashamed.
Haley Radke: You are listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. This is Season Two, Episode 11: Jemma. I'm your host, Haley Radke.
Can you really be adopted back into your family of origin? Today I get to introduce you to Jemma Sullivan, and she shares some incredibly painful realities of having a narcissistic adoptive parent. But it's not all gloom and doom, I promise. You need to wait to hear what happens at the beginning of Jemma's new chapter with her first mother.
We wrap up with some recommended resources and as always, links to all of the things we'll be talking about today are on the website, AdopteesOn.com. Let's listen in.
I am so pleased to welcome Jemma to Adoptees On today. Welcome, Jemma.
Jemma Sullivan: Thank you, Haley, I appreciate you having me on.
Haley Radke: I have followed you on Twitter and I know a bit of your story and you have some very interesting twists, so I would just love it if you would share your story with us.
Jemma Sullivan: Well, I was born in 1971, adopted as an infant. I was premature, so I spent the first three weeks in the hospital. Private adoption. Closed adoption, obviously in ‘71, in the state of Florida. The standard childhood, I mean, it wasn't like anything too major, until I got older and started questioning things. My adoptive mother at the time, we couldn't get along. And I used to question, ‘Why can't we get along? Why can't we– what is it about me that you object to?’ Made the mistake once of asking her, “Is it because I'm adopted?” I was 16. That was when she said something to the effect of, “We adopted you because your mother didn't love you enough to keep you.” And I just looked at her and I remembered thinking, for the first time in my life, ‘This woman is a liar.’ I did grow up with that traditional story of, “Oh, your mother loved you enough to give you away.”
Haley Radke: So all of a sudden the story switches for her.
Jemma Sullivan: Yeah. And then all of a sudden it's like when I ask, it's like, yeah, boom. Yeah. I mean there was that. I mean, I didn't necessarily grow up feeling “other”, but I always knew that I was adopted. I don't remember being told, it's something that was always there. I had an older brother who was also adopted. For the most part, I never really “attached”, I guess you could say, to my mother, you know. I always knew that there was a favorite and it wasn't me.
Haley Radke: And so your older brother didn't have that same disconnect from your mother?
Jemma Sullivan: No, no. He was the golden child. And he could do no wrong. It didn't matter what he did. Even if he really did something wrong, he could do no wrong. I was kind of like the “black sheep”, as we used to say. But learning more about maternal narcissism and so forth, doing some healing work, we now consider ourselves giraffes– it's this little story that Dr. Carol McBride tells, about becoming the giraffe instead of the sheep. How you've got this long, tall neck and you're above the trees, and you're looking down on all the sheep, and you can see everything for what it really is, and you don't have to be a part of that.
Haley Radke: I love that analogy. I've not heard that before.
Jemma Sullivan: Yeah, she's got a little video, she talks about it on her website.
Haley Radke: I'll find that and I'll put it in our show notes.
Okay. So some like big separation as a teenager, then, when you have this conversation at age 16. How did things kind-of play out from there?
Jemma Sullivan: I guess when you look at– one of the biggest adoptee issues is abandonment. And anytime in my life when my adoptive parents didn't agree with something, a choice that I was making, it'd be total radio silence, they wouldn't speak to me. And it was usually her, and then he would follow her because he was in this whole– this comes into a faith or religious thing, you know, how you gotta stick with your wife. And he kind of took it to the extreme, didn't matter if she was wrong, he was gonna back her no matter what. So then I wouldn't hear from them for a while. You're kind of on your own a lot.
So when I was, gosh, 21, I got engaged to a guy they didn't approve of. They did everything to foil the wedding. Finally, I just got married without them. Then they confronted me and I just said, “Guys, you were being too difficult. There was nothing– it wasn't worth it anymore.” And they stopped speaking to me about that time. They said, “Okay.” Click! Hung up. Didn't hear from them.
It had been a couple of weeks and a little bit before that I had decided since I was going to be getting married that I wanted to get non-identifying information, and had written to the state of Florida and got that. I hadn't even thought about doing a search or anything. So I got the information just before I got married. I was kind of amazed at what was in there. I mean, there was stuff about my grandmother suffering from major depression, being in and out of institutions and you know, that sort of thing. And then there was this note about how my biological mother had reacted at placing me for adoption, at her state of mind. How she was just beside herself, she was in quite a state. Which to me, I thought was kind of unusual. Because most of the time they stick to the facts, as opposed to, you know, putting feelings in a lot of these things. But that was in there. And I just remember thinking, ‘Oh no, I have to find her.’ Because if there's depression in the family, what could be more depressing than giving your child up for adoption? So I just had this need to let her know I was okay. And then I thought, ‘Well, gosh, what do I do?’ Because this was like 1992 or ‘93.
Haley Radke: And you're just early 20s here?
Jemma Sullivan: Yes, 21 years old. And I had no idea. We didn't have quite the computer system, the internet stuff that we have today. I was clueless, I had no idea what I was going to do. And then I kind-of figured out how to find out, but I can't say anything about that, because it was illegal.
Haley Radke: Okay!
Jemma Sullivan: So, that's right. I am not ashamed. I admit it. I broke the law.
Haley Radke: Okay. Don't confess any further. Okay, so you found your birth mother.
Jemma Sullivan: Yes, so I got her name at the time she had me, and I got how old she was at the time that she had me, and where she grew up. And that was it, that's all the information that I was given.
I was living in Georgia at the time. Drove down the next day. My friend said, “Okay, let's get to work.” We went to the courthouse and started pulling books and stuff out of records and so forth. And of course one of the first things I had them look was, “Just look at death notices.” Because I'm like, “I just– I want to start there. I don't want to go through all this and that be the result when I could have just found out right off the bat.” And so thankfully there was nothing, which was a relief. So I just kind of kept looking through like the Who's Who books, they have all these addresses and it's not like the phone book or anything, but it does give everybody in the household kind of thing. So I said to my friend, I said, “I wonder if I should find her husband,” I said, “you know, I don't see a divorce decree. But you know, she could file in another county.” And so we're like, “Okay…” And the guy that's standing there, he looks over and he goes, “Oh yeah, he's an officer. You see that building over there? That's where he would work.” “Okay, then. Let's walk across the street.” Walked across the street, and of course they're like, “Oh no, he's out at the satellite office today.” I'm like, “Great. Okay.” Go to the satellite office. And they're like, “Oh, he's not working today.” But I'm just looking at them going, “I can't stop. There's gotta be something else.” And I said, “You know what? We're going to his house.” You know, my friend's like, “Well, are you sure you wanna do that?” And I said, “What's he gonna do? Arrest me for knocking on his door?”
So we went to the address that we had seen for him. My friend, who is the same age as my biological mother, decided she was going to say she was her friend from high school and she was trying to find her. So this guy answers the door, she tells him this story and he's like, “Oh, okay, let me get her phone number for you.” And she said, “Excuse me, are you her son?” And he said, “Yeah, I'm her son.” Gosh. So I'm standing face to face with my brother. Oh my gosh. Less than three hours searching. And I just, I probably looked like an idiot. I just didn't say anything. I'm just like, ‘Okay. I can't say anything anyways, because I don't know what he knows.’
So he gave us her phone number and of course at this time I didn't know if his father was my father or any of that stuff. He's not. But anyhow, he's only 18 months younger than I am. That was a little tough at first, but I decided to focus on the fact that I've got a brother. Yeah. I went back to my friend's house and it's now five o'clock in the evening. We started like 8:30 in the morning. So I just thought, ‘Okay, let's do this.’ And I just called; some guy answered, and he's like, “Who's this?”
I was like, “My name is this.” And he's like, “What do you want with her?” And I was like, “Oh, that's personal business.” He goes, “Oh, come on, come on!” And he's just really kind of a jerk. I just finally got so frustrated I hung up. I went in to my friend, well, I said something a little colorful. I was crying and I looked at her and she's “What's wrong?” And I'm like, “My mom's living with a…”
Haley Radke: Bleep!
Jemma Sullivan: And took about two minutes, calmed down, went back in there and said, ‘Okay. Doing it again.’ Called again, and this time a woman answered. She was just like, “Well, who's this? What's this about?” And I said, “Well, that's personal, that's between her and me.” And she's like, “Well, you're gonna have to give me something.”
And I said, “Wait a minute. Are you telling me that unless I tell you why I am calling you are not gonna let me speak to her?” She said, “Mmm, yep, that's what I'm telling you.” And I said– I just kind-of took that [huff of air] sharp intake, stiffen up the spine, and said, “Fine. I'm her daughter.” And you could hear this “Uh!” And I said, “She gave me up for adoption 21 years ago. I don't know if she's thought of me since, I don't know if she wants to talk to me, but I just, I have some questions and I wanna know some stuff. If she wants a relationship, that's fine. If she doesn't, that's fine, but I wanna talk to her. I feel like I deserve that.”
And she says, “Well, I can tell you for a fact that I know that she wants to speak with you, and that she has thought of you very often over the years. I can have her call you at this time tomorrow. She's not available right now, but I can have her call you at this time tomorrow. What's your number?” So I gave her my number and she's like, “Okay, I promise you she will call you.”
“Okay, thanks.” Click! Go into my friend, and I tell her what happened, and she starts laughing at me. “Do you really not know that you were just talking to your mother? Who else would've known what she said?” And I was like, “Oh my gosh, you're right.” Of course I'm feeling extremely dense at the moment. But yeah, it was her. And as it turned out, she was sitting there celebrating a two-month dating anniversary with her boyfriend who had no clue about me. So she learned early on in her life not to tell people about me, because people would throw it up in her face. Someone gets angry with her, then they would throw that up at her.
She did call me the next day and we talked for, gosh, forever. And of course, you know, at the time I have to say I was still the “good adoptee”. I was still the adoptee saying, “Thank you for giving me up for adoption to have a better life. I just didn't want you to worry.” And in truth, that was crap– can I say that?
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Jemma Sullivan: Okay. Because, you know, it's such a lie that we get given up for a better life. Because they can't promise that. They can promise a different life. I definitely had a different life. But I was still in the dark about narcissism at the time too. So, you know, I always thought it was just me. I thought there was something wrong with me. Because that's the adoptee way, I guess.
Haley Radke: So you found her. And is there a reunion? What's next?
Jemma Sullivan: Yes, we met the next day, at a little bar, a little restaurant bar on the little bay in Sanford. It was called Fitzgerald's Pub. I went to meet her there, and of course I get there early because I'm nervous. I go, and then the time comes, and the time passes, and she's not there. And I'm looking at my watch going, ‘Oh no. She's not gonna show.’ The bartender looks at me and he says, “Uh, ma'am, are you okay?” And I said, “Well, I don't know.” And I just told him, you know, I mean, hey, it's a bartender, right? Share everything with a bartender. So I just gave him a quick rundown of what was happening and he's like, “Oh my gosh. Well this is my first reunion here.” And he said, “I tell you what,” he said, “let me give you a glass of wine on the house. She'll be here. Just settle.” Phone rings; he comes over right after that and says, “That was your mom. She's on her way. She doesn't want you to worry. She is coming. She said to order some food.” Okay.
Well it turns out the reason she was late is because she was curling her hair, getting her makeup just right, Lee press-on nails. Back in the day, you know? Because she wanted to look perfect. But the truth is she was already perfect to me. I knew her as soon as she walked in, because it was my eyes staring back at me. To see yourself in someone else was just unbelievable.
We sat and had a drink, and her boyfriend had a little sailboat moored there, and so we went and hung out there, and I ended up just spending the night there on the sailboat with her, and we talked till three or four in the morning. Then of course I had to go back to my friend’s, because let's not forget, I had just gotten married at that point. And so my husband was back at my friend's. She decided to have a get together so that I could officially meet my brother.
Oh, and I guess one detail that I left out is that I did ask her pretty much immediately about my father, because I wanted to know if it was the same guy. And she's like, “No, that's not.” But she did tell me right away, she gave me his name, where he was from. She did give me a warning, she said, “I'm just gonna tell you: don't expect the same reception.” And I said, “Okay.”
So back to that weekend: we went to Orlando for this party, and basically her roommates made it a late baby shower. So they bought her some stuff she needed, like, for the house or, you know, just little gifts and stuff. And they did this big lunch. So it was really neat getting to hang out with my little brother and my mom. Just talking with her and getting to know her, there was no denying that I was her kid. Not even about the looks, it's the way we look at things a lot of times, the way that we react to things, that stubborn “I can't do what? Watch me!” And she always says –she still says– she says, “I still remember that day like it was yesterday.” And she said, “I could hear it through the phone. I could hear you straighten your spine and get that look.” She said, “You just flipped your hair and you got the look. And you just steeled yourself and said, ‘Fine!’” She said “I could see it, because it's exactly what I would've done.”
Haley Radke: So how has reunion gone for you now? You're into it, like, oh boy, twenty–
Jemma Sullivan: 25 years!
Haley Radke: Okay. Now you've been with her longer than you were apart.
Jemma Sullivan: Yes. Our reunion has been very complicated by my adoptive family. They like to say, “Oh, we always said we'd help you if you ever wanted to find her.” Which by the way, I never recall ever hearing. But they gave me a really hard time for doing it without them.
And I just kind of was like, “Guys, this isn't about you. It has nothing to do with how I feel about you. It has nothing to do with anything about you. It doesn't matter. Yeah. It happened while we weren't speaking, but that was just a matter of timing.” I never claimed my timing was good. I would say, “Hey I'm gonna go see a friend, go hang out with a friend.” “Oh, okay.” And I'd go and I'd see her. “Where you been?” “Oh, with a friend.” Scoot off into my room. This is probably a year or so later. The marriage didn't last, obviously, but like I say, even a broken clock is right twice a day. The fact that my parents were right about the guy didn't change anything.
She was always very gracious, my bio mom. She's always been very gracious with regard to them, trying to defer to them on anything. You know, if I was frustrated and I was with something with them, and I'm talking to her, initially, it was like, “Come on, you know, it's your mom,” and blah, blah, blah, “they love you,” and all that kind of stuff. Until she started kind of really listening to some of the stuff that I was telling her was happening, and then she was just like, “Ugh! She sounds like my mom.” Like I said, my adoptive family was very back and forth with me. It's like you're either in good or you're out. And so if I was behaving, if I was toeing the line, then everything was good. But if I wasn't doing everything they wanted, then they weren't speaking to me. And there would be a period of silence and freeze out. Interestingly enough, the more it happened, the more I started realizing that those were some of the happiest times of my life because I got to be myself, whoever that was. Because I wasn't allowed to be me. I had to be this other kid that they couldn't have. I had to always try to be that other person, the person that they wished they had gotten.
When I had my first child, I was 27. I mean, she was just a little bitty thing. It was not a problem, I'd take her over and my mom could see her. And of course, interestingly enough, she had had a baby about three years prior. So I have another little brother who is 21, he'll be 22 soon. When my daughter started getting to where she was verbal, I had to back off the contact with my mom because I knew, you know, if my daughter said something in front of my adoptive mother, I couldn't handle it if they had treated her the way they treated me, and I didn't want her to ever be in that position.
So, yeah, so I just kind of stayed away and it kind of reverted to birthday cards and Christmas cards and maybe a once-a-year call or, you know, when I was in private, say, “Hey, how you doing?” So sadly, because of that, I also missed out on my brother growing up, you know. And the thing is, my mom was more than happy to share with my adopters. She wanted to meet them and say, “Thank you for taking care of my baby. Thank you for doing what I wasn't able to do,” or, you know, something. But it just wasn't meant to be that way, I guess. My adopters were just not built that way. Yeah. So we just kind of were very casual, distant during all of that.
And then in 2011, I had one final blowout with my adoptive mother. It basically was her badmouthing me to my daughter, who was 12 at the time. Basically saying what a horrible daughter I am, how horrible I was as a teen. Which, by the way I really was not, I didn't get into any trouble. It wasn't until, I mean, I confronted her on it a few days after I found out what was said. I waited a few days to calm down because while what she had said was bad, I was mostly angry that she said it to my daughter, so that was like a huge, huge thing. I talked to her calmly, initially. And she kept pushing, and pushing, and pushing, and just saying really horrible stuff to me. It's when she said something horrible about my mother-in-law that I lost it, because I have an amazing mother-in-law. Basically, she's like, “Well, I'm just gonna hang up if you're…” And I'm like, “Hey, whoa. If we don't talk this through, then we're done.” And she hung up. And I just looked at my mother-in-law, who happened to be standing there. My mother-in-law was standing there, and she's just kind of looking at me like, ‘oh my goodness’. I looked at my husband and I said, “Okay, then. Guess that's that.” It was just, like, 40 years in the making. At that time I was 40. It was like 40 years in the making.
So then I'm like, ‘okay, I'm gonna have to get my daughter in therapy after this, because this isn't good’. So I started her in therapy to get to talk about it, because she was having a hard time talking about things. And her therapist calls me into the room, says, “She needs to talk to you. She needs to tell you something.” So my daughter proceeds to tell me the big thing that my adoptive mother had said that she had held back from telling me up to that point, which was that she regretted adopting me. That she should have stopped after my brother–
Haley Radke: Oh my God.
Jemma Sullivan: –and why couldn't she have been her daughter? Then they sent my daughter into the little room to play with the kid things and her therapist looks at me and gives me that ‘cut it off’ sign. It's time to cut it off. And that was it. We went no-contact with them. Not that they ever abided by it. They kept kind of doing that. So anyhow, shortly thereafter –that was like in July of ‘11– and December of ‘11, my bio mom flew up the day after Christmas to meet her grandkids and to meet my husband. And that's the first time I'd seen her in 20-some years. It was just amazing. It hadn't skipped a beat since. At first she thought things would go back. She's like, “Oh, you'll go back.” And I'm like, “No, I'm done. I'm done.” Finally, she realized, “Wow, you're really not going back.” I'm like, “No, I told you I'm done. No, when I say I'm done.” And she goes, “Oh, you are my kid.”
So we just kind of moved on at that point. And ever since that we go down and hang out every 4th of July with them, and we were doing these big things. And they came up, my one brother came up with her Christmas a couple years ago. So that was really kind of a cool thing.
And then, like I said, my adopters were not respecting our wishes for no contact. Such that, I live in Pennsylvania, they live in Florida; they boarded a plane and showed up at my door.
Haley Radke: No!
Jemma Sullivan: Yes. And it just happened to be that my daughter was doing an online school program, so she was home. My son was home sick. So I had both kids there at the house, and they show up at the door unannounced. I knew I wasn't expecting anybody, so I didn't just open the door. I looked out the sidelight and saw a car I didn't recognize. Looked a little further over and looked right in her eyes, and shook my head no, and walked away.
They kept knocking for a little bit and they started walking all around the property, trying to look in the windows, walking on the deck. But I had everything closed up so they couldn't see in. So there was that. That was fun. And we started noticing then that our daughters started having very big reactions to them. Like, physical, just shaking and stuff, and it was just like, ‘Oh, we waited too long. We should have done this sooner.’
But, probably a couple of springs ago, I'm a March baby, which by the way, I was born March 20th, but the state of Florida changed my birth date to the 21st. So for 46 years, I've celebrated the 21st, and I just got it changed back. But, we'll get there. But yeah, so March, some flowers arrived with this card that just says, “We'll always love you.” And they didn't even sign it. That exact moment, it just hit me: ‘They're never gonna stop. And why am I so worried about their feelings when they don't even care about mine?’ And I just said, ‘You know what? I need to do some self care here. And what I need is to be with my mom.’ And I called her and said, “Mom, it's time.” And she said, “Time for what?” I said, “Time for you to adopt me back.” She said, “Okay!” She said, “I'm good with that.” And my brothers were good with it. My husband was good. I mean, I had been wanting to do a name change because I'd always hated my former name, and I was going to do the name change, and I'd been talking about that for years. And then I finally just said, ‘No, I'm not stopping at that. My mom adopt me. Go big or go home.’
Haley Radke: Okay, I did not even know this was a thing, so tell me all about it.
Jemma Sullivan: Okay, it is a process called adult adoption. I don't know how many states or countries have this, but Florida does. It is a process that was initially done to allow for children who have aged out of the child welfare system to be able to have a family. If they find someone later, a family that they click with, they could still have that pathway to a family.
And so that's what the law was created for. But I looked at all the little things and I said, ‘Hm! That works. It doesn't say you have to be in the system, doesn't say you have to be a foster kid.’ So I called an attorney, and that was the thing. And basically it's a thing where they terminate the rights of the former parents. And in every other case that they've had, whatever cases they've had, it's been the biological parents. In my case, it was adoptive parents, and let me tell you, the judge was looking really confused for a little moment when we went to court. It was like he was kind of looking around going, ‘Okay, wait, who's who?’ And this, yeah. So we filed, we started with the attorney like in April of ‘16, and then we went to court a couple months ago, finally.
Haley Radke: So early in 2017?
Jemma Sullivan: Yes.
Haley Radke: So you're officially her daughter again?
Jemma Sullivan: Yes.
Haley Radke: And does that mean you get all the rights that go along with that?
Jemma Sullivan: Yes.
Haley Radke: Wow.
Jemma Sullivan: Just as if she was anybody, adopting anybody. I mean, even the wording, it's funny: “as if she were born to you,” and I just laugh, because I’m like, “Uh, ‘cause I was!” So it was kind of funny, but it has its own challenges because I'm twice adopted, twice sealed, now, in terms of records.
Haley Radke: Now I'm remembering when you're telling your story that your mom's friends threw her like a late baby shower, and tell me about the adoption day, because I know something special happened.
Jemma Sullivan: So first, like I said, we had court. And I was there, my husband went with me, my mom, one of my brothers went, and my best friend since high school. Because I knew –I'd been having these dreams right before– I knew that they were gonna show up. Even though they didn't have to be there, because they weren't a party to it; because they didn't have to agree to it.
Haley Radke: Oh, but they got notified that this was happening?
Jemma Sullivan: They got notified, yeah. They actually got an attorney, who happens to be my daughter's godfather. Yeah. Nice, right? And his wife came, because his wife, well, she's known me since I was adopted. She was my babysitter growing up. And she was there, and my adoptive father was there, but my adoptive mother was not there. I just went in and I just kind of kept tunnel vision. I didn't look at any of them. I looked at the judge, I looked over at my mother, and that was pretty much it. And I gotta tell you, I mean, they were sobbing. I felt really bad for them to a point. Kinda like, ‘Well, what do you expect was gonna happen?’
Haley Radke: “Yeah, maybe don't tell my daughter these terrible, terrible things. Not your best judgment.” Oh my gosh.
Jemma Sullivan: Right? Right. Yeah, so I just didn't say anything. And so the judge kind-of walked through, “Who's this person? Who's this person?” And he's asking me the questions, “And who's this person to you? And this? Okay, I think I got it.” He goes, “So this is your adoptive father?” “Yes.” “And this woman is–?” “My biological mother, who is adopting me back today.” He got this look on his face like, ‘Oh! Okay then,’ and you could kind of see him processing that and ‘What could possibly have happened here?’ to be doing this. Like, ‘wow’. It was clearly new to him. He's ready to sign off on everything. He's like, “Is there anything else?” And then the other attorney speaks up and says, “My client would like to say something.” And I'm just kind-of looking straight at the judge, like, blank. Just totally blank. And he thinks about it for a second. He's like, “Mmm, alright, I'll allow it.” My adoptive father was crying and he's like, “We just want her to know, we'll always love her. And all we ever wanted was for her to be happy. That’s all.”
The judge looks at me, and I just looked at him, and he's like, “Okay, then nothing else?” And then the attorney's wife says, “I'd like to say something!” And he turns and throws his hand up –her husband– and says, “No. Stop. No. We're done, your Honor.” So we get up and he, you know, signs the paperwork. We get up and I stop and I turn my back to them so that I can face my attorney and my mom to let them walk out.
They go out, we go out, I turn towards the elevator and there is the babysitter. And here she's making a beeline, right for me. She comes over, she grabs me by the hands, and she's just in tears and just, “So happy for you. I’m really happy for you.” I'm thinking, ‘Right. You look really thrilled.’
She then brings me in for a hug and she's looking over my shoulder and my mom is standing right behind me, and she starts going on about how she's loved me since I was born, and she's been my babysitter, and she's taken care of me and changed my diapers, and all this stuff. And my mom is giving her the same blank look that I was giving throughout the whole thing like, ‘What's your point?’
And you know, of course, this whole time, I mean, she's sobbing and so I have my left hand up kind-of just on the back of her arm. And with the other one I just literally –and I'm a very demonstrative person, so I'm a hugger, you know?– but I just literally did the proverbial pat-pat-pat, and then dropped my hands, my arms and then stepped back. And she just got this look on her face like, ‘Oh, I've been dismissed.’ And it's like, ‘Okay!’ And I just said, “Take care.” And she walked away. And as she walked away, then my mother said something colorful. She said, “And you're the ‘beep’ that also tried to snatch my granddaughter a couple of years ago.” And I looked at her and I said, “You caught that, did you, that's who she was?” And she goes, “Oh, I know who she is.” Because they had tried to get access to my daughter without our permission, when she was 12.
So, onto the fun stuff.
Haley Radke: So yes, tell me about the celebration.
Jemma Sullivan: I had to leave the courthouse and take my husband to the airport and everybody else went back and started getting ready. I knew we were gonna have some grilled ribs and stuff like that. But when I pulled up at my mom's house after coming back from the airport, there were pink and white balloons, and one of those little banner signs that says “It's a girl” strung across the doorway outside. And then inside as well, they had decorated with some streamers and some balloons and had some little, “it's a girl” plates and all this stuff. And there was a card and I had my own little wineglass thing: “It's a girl.” And her neighbors had done that. They've been extremely supportive of us, and especially my mom through all of this. Especially through the years that I wasn't around. They've just been really great people for the family. So then we popped the champagne and got our ribs on.
Haley Radke: Oh my goodness. I just, I love that for you, I love that you've been able to be, you know, welcomed back into your family of origin, you know? How beautiful.
Jemma Sullivan: I just, the real long and short of it with my father: I called, I got the, “Don't know you, don't wanna know you.” Eventually we did meet and for the one day he did kind-of treat me like a princess, but it had more to do with him than it did with me. His own issues, which I found out after he died in 2013. But I do have relationships with one of his brothers and with my cousins on that side. So, not a total loss there.
Haley Radke: Well, I'm so glad. Oh my goodness. Well, I feel like I could talk to you for another hour, but we have to recommend our resources. Is there anything else you wanna mention before we move on to that?
Jemma Sullivan: I would love to see some people do some actual research into the connection between narcissism and adoption, because I just feel like I have met so many adoptees that have one or more narcissistic parents or with some serious narcissistic traits. It can't be a coincidence that there's that many. And a lot of the same thing, they have to go no-contact because it's just so toxic. And so I just would really like to see somebody really do some more research into that, because I think as adoptees, with all the stuff that we get told growing up and, you know, “be grateful” and all of that stuff, we really are groomed in a lot of ways, to be targets for a narcissist.
Haley Radke: Yeah, I agree, it is so common and we've even talked about it on the show before. Good thoughts, good thoughts. Not easy, but good.
Okay. So recommended resources. I'm taking a little bit of a turn today. I usually really focus on adoption-related items. I saw this article pop up in my Facebook feed from a couple of different “friends of the show” –people who've been on before– and it's called New Neuroscience Reveals Four Rituals That Will Make You Happy. And because we talk a lot about healing and things on the show, I thought it would be good to share. It's a really great article, actually. It's long, but the couple things I really wanted to bring out were the first two rituals. The first one is: The most important question to ask when you feel down. And you're just mentioning, “Oh, you know, adoptees, we're supposed to feel grateful for being adopted and stuff.” But according to this research, actually feeling gratitude does help us to regain some sense of joy. So, not necessarily feeling grateful that we were adopted.
Jemma Sullivan: Right!
Haley Radke: I'm not talking about that kind of gratitude. I'm just talking about gratitude about in your life and exactly what things can you focus on that you have to be happy for and grateful for. And so I think if you are having a down day or something, this would be a really great thing to do.
And then the second thing was to label your negative feelings. So similarly, if you focus on gratitude, you know, you kind of bring up joy for yourself. But if you're kind of stuck in those negative feelings, and you kind-of can spiral downward. I can, I for sure can. So this article talks about the science, actually labeling those negative feelings can help us be like, ‘Okay, this is what it is,’ and then you can move forward and you don't have to circle down. Anyway, that's just a brief little overview. So I would recommend taking a look at that article. I'll link to it in the show notes and so you can check it out. So they're just like, four little things you can do throughout your day if you're having a lousy day, which I've had a few of in the last week, so I needed that reminder.
Okay, Jemma, what do you have for us today?
Jemma Sullivan: Okay, well, the first one is one that you guys have talked about plenty. It's The Primal Wound by Nancy Newton Verrier. I haven't even finished it yet, but it was so profound to me, that real trauma aspect and acknowledging that. And I just think that it's a read not just for adoptees, but for anybody who loves an adoptee or knows an adoptee. I think it should just be required reading period.
Haley Radke: Yeah, I agree.
Jemma Sullivan: Kind-of hand-in-hand with that is, there is a counselor, Juli Alvarado. She does some public speaking and stuff, and it's about trauma-informed care. And I was recently at one of her conferences and it was phenomenal talking about the different stages in your life when you can experience trauma, the first being pre-birth; at birth; and then, you know, immediately after birth; and so on and so forth. And talking about the neuroscience aspect of how that affects your brain, and the chemical makeup of your brain and what it does. And how it puts you in a feedback loop between three parts of the brain that has to get interrupted to get stopped, to back out of that trauma. And so we react based on those traumas and we're in that fight/flight/freeze. And so it was phenomenal. She's someone to look up and it's Juli Alvarado, and she's on Facebook.
Haley Radke: Awesome. I'll totally link to that. That sounds so good. That sounds like some of what Leslie was teaching in one of the Healing Series we just did, is adoption trauma. Great. And you have one last one.
Jemma Sullivan: One last one, which for me was a lifesaver and it's Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing The Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers by Dr. Carol McBride. I've actually been to one of her seminars, as well, to work through the book and as a healing thing. It's just basically a healing manual. It talks about recognizing the stuff, what you can do, and different things that you can do to work through the trauma of that, and of being exposed to narcissism. It was a lifesaver for me. Because it literally got me past thinking everything was my fault and it was all me. It was okay to go, ‘No, it really is her. It is her.’
Haley Radke: Yeah. And you know, and it's so sad that it had to take so very long for you, and it had to be your daughter to be injured, you know? So I'm sorry that happened and I'm so grateful you are recommending that book, because I'm sure there's a lot of us listening that can identify with some of those qualities in our adoptive parents. And you gotta put yourself and your family first, no matter what is happening for them.
Jemma Sullivan: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Haley Radke: Oh my goodness. Oh, Jemma, I just wanna thank you so much for sharing with us.
Jemma Sullivan: Thank you for having me.
Haley Radke: Yeah. Now, if anyone has questions about your story, they wanna hear more, how can they connect with you online?
Jemma Sullivan: They can connect with me on Twitter.
Haley Radke: So your Twitter handle is @J_R_Sullivan.
Jemma Sullivan: Yes, that's it.
Haley Radke: All right. So we can look you up on Twitter, which is my favorite place to be online. Wonderful. Thanks again for sharing your story. I wonder if it will inspire some people to be adopted back.
Jemma Sullivan: Yeah, I've had a couple of conversations. So, who knows, it may be the next thing.
Haley Radke: Okay, well, if Jemma has inspired you to look into adult adoption, please come and let her know.
I want to thank everyone who shared the show to celebrate my one-year podcasting anniversary, and there are many books and gifts on their way to Joel, Dean, Marnie, John, Stina, Jen, Ruth, Ellie, and Shannon. One amazing way to celebrate with me would be to join my Adoptees On partners. You can donate a small monthly pledge that helps keep my podcast sustainable, and I have some great thank-you gifts for you, including a secret adoptees-only Facebook group. AdopteesOn.com/partner has the details for that opportunity. I also need to tell you that we are nearing the end of Season Two. I've got two more episodes coming up, including an interview with Liz Latty and a surprise special guest for the finale. Make sure you're subscribed wherever you listen to podcasts: iTunes, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher. I even post these episodes on YouTube and Facebook.
Today, would you tell one person about Adoptees On? Perhaps someone you know has an incredibly challenging relationship with their adoptive parents. You could share the show with them and then talk about it together and support each other in your journeys.
Thank you for listening, let's talk again next Friday.
