Transcript
Full shownotes: https://www.adopteeson.com/listen/68
Haley Radke: [00:00:00] This show is listener supported.
You're listening to Adoptees On. The podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. This is season four, episode eight. Amy and Fleurette. I'm your host, Haley Radke. It's my honor to bring you today's guests, Fleurette and Amy, a mother and daughter duo. We talk about the unusual circumstances surrounding Amy's adoption, the disappointment they both felt after their first official in-person meeting, how bringing grandkids into the equation shifted their relationship and how many years it took them before they felt their reunion relationship was quote unquote normal. Spoiler alert, it was a long time. We wrap up with some recommended resources and as always, links to all of the things we'll be talking about today are on the website, Adopteeson.com. Let's listen in.[00:01:00]
Well, I'm so pleased to welcome to Adoptees On two guests today, Amy and Fleurette. Welcome ladies.
Amy: Thank you.
Fleurette: Thank you.
Haley Radke: I have had the pleasure of meeting Amy in person and I've spoken to you Fleurette before, but I'd love to introduce you to my listeners, but why don't we start out, Amy, would you share your story with us?
Amy: I was adopted in, um, January of 1980 in Saskatoon, in Saskatchewan. I was adopted by a family from a small farming town, and I was the oldest, and then they later adopted my sister, who's three years younger. I grew up on a farm and, um, just grew up in like, just a small town, farm life. Um, had lots of cousins, lots of aunts and uncles, went to a small school. I always knew I was adopted. As long as I can [00:02:00] remember. I don't actually really remember how my parents told me. I just always just knew and I, I don't know if I knew what that was, even for the longest time until I was older, but I always knew that I was adopted and yeah, so just really grew up in a, in a typical family.
When I was 16, my younger sister, she started asking my parents about her birth family and if just inquiring and being curious about her, who her mom might be. Um, and just asked a lot of questions. And at that point, I don't think I had really, I had never really asked much about my adoption or had really inquired about it. I, I think I probably thought about it, but just not, not a ton. And so when my sister started asking questions, my mom said, you know, yeah, you actually, we did get some non-identifying information for the both of you when you were adopted, and we [00:03:00] have it in the safety deposit box and you know, we're happy to share that information with you if you want it. So when my dad went into town the next time he went to the credit union and they got the non-identifying information, brought it home that evening.
And so my sister was adopted three years after I was, so we were, it was both closed adoptions. Her information had a lot more detail than mine did. Um, just I think because she was adopted three years later and maybe there was more information to be had then. Anyway, all I said was, wow, she has a lot more information than I do. And I don't know, I guess my mom thought that that was her entry to say, well, actually we could tell you more about your mom if you wanted to know and I didn't really know what that meant. And so I said, well, what do you mean? And she said, well, we, we could tell you who your mom is and so I was like, okay, well, I was not [00:04:00] expecting that to come from this conversation. I just thought maybe there was some more information about like, you know, demographic type stuff, not who she actually was.
Haley Radke: Right.
Amy: I just remember thinking like, and saying like, well, I don't, what do you mean like, you know who she is? And so my mom and dad proceeded to tell me that when I was adopted, it was a closed adoption through the government. Um, when they signed the papers for me, they received papers. Obviously not, they were not supposed to receive the papers, but it had my name on there with my last name as well as my mom's name on the paper.
Haley Radke: So you're identifying information was on there and they were given that by mistake.
Amy: Yes, they were. And so they'd already waited quite a long time to adopt a, a baby. Like I think it was about five years by that time. And so my mom said they saw the name [00:05:00] and they didn't say anything because they didn't want me to be not adopted to them, you know?
So my birth mom happened to be my adopted dad's first cousin. Closed adoptions back then, I don't really, I can't really speak to what they are now, but mom, my mom said that they did very thorough background checks on my parents. So family trees, you know, friends, because they did not want for this reason to have a child adopted to a family member.
And so obviously someone dropped the ball. I don't know who it was, but somebody and somebody dropped the ball and, um, anyways, yeah, so my parents knew who my mom was and I, like, my dad is quite a bit older than Fleurette, so, you know, they weren't super close. They weren't from the same town, but they're, they obviously knew each other and, you know, families knew each other, so.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm.
Amy: Yeah. So my parents never said [00:06:00] anything, and then they decided when I was 16 that I think it was just like a weight off my mom's chest to tell me who she was. So that was really, like, I remember feeling extremely kind of like the wind had been, you know, knocked out of me. Like, it was just kind of like weird, you know, because it was something that I had never really thought about a ton or, and then all of a sudden everything was just kind of like piled on my plate.
So after that, I didn't, I didn't really speak about it again for a year. So the following year when I was 17, uh, there was a family reunion that was happening in the town that Fleurette is from, and the rest of my extended family. And so my parents made me go to this reunion and I didn't really want to go. So I, I just couldn't quite voice why I didn't want to go, because I just, I didn't feel really comfortable [00:07:00] talking about it at that point. It was still something really difficult for me to talk about. And so I finally was able to voice to my mom, like the day before we went that, you know, I really, I really don't want to go to this reunion. And she asked me, you know, why don't you want to go? And I said, well, you know, like, what if she's there? Like, what if she's there? And I like, how, what am I supposed to do if she's there? And so my mom just said, you know, like, I'm so sorry. You know, we, we just really have always known that, who you were and that you were her daughter. And so we didn't even, you know, put it together that this, we would be worried about it, you know, we've just kind of always lived with it. So, um, she said, you know, if we go and it's too difficult and, you know, we can go home early or whatever.
So yeah, we went to this family reunion and um, I think we were there for like a total of 20 minutes. We pulled up and I was getting out of the vehicle and I was getting my shoes, I think out of the vehicle and this other vehicle pulled up not far from us, and this woman and this man got [00:08:00] out of the vehicle and I just innocently asked my mom like, oh, like who's that? Just because, you know, of course aside from your own immediate family, you don't really know anybody at a family reunion. And uh, my mom said, well, actually that's your mom.
And so, yeah, I saw her for the first time and yeah, it was just very, uh, weird, obviously. For the rest of the weekend I had to go through the whole weekend just pretending like I didn't know who she was and like sitting across from her eating or whatever it might be, like all weekend. I saw her all weekend and um, yeah, I didn't, I couldn't say, I couldn't, you know, I couldn't go over to her obviously I never would have anyways, but it was just obviously very traumatizing and I don't think I realized the level of trauma till much later, but yeah.
So then shortly after that reunion when I went [00:09:00] home, it was like, um, I'm sure people can relate that are adopted, but you know, for a long time I just, I knew I had a birth mom and I knew I had, you know, family out there, but it's almost like they don't really exist because it's hard to imagine. And then when you actually see, you know, because I saw her, and not only did I see her, but I saw, you know, my grandma and, um, my aunts and uncles and my cousins who were younger than me and it was just like, I couldn't put that away anywhere, you know? So when we got home, I said to my mom, you know, I just feel like I need to do something about this, and I'm not really sure what, but I feel like I need to at least reach out or something. I, I didn't actually really know to start, because I was only 18 at the time. And so my mom said, you know, I can, why don't I phone your grandma who is Fleurette’s mom? And she said, I am almost positive in my heart that she also knows deep down who you are. And so if I phone [00:10:00] her first, and, you know, tell her she's probably not going to be super surprised, and then maybe she can help navigate how we can, you know, reach out to Fleurette.
Haley Radke: Wow.
Amy: Yeah.
Haley Radke: Okay. Okay. So let's pause there. So Fleurette is your birth mother. Fleurette, why don't you tell us your story?
Fleurette: My story. Oh, yikes. Well, I got pregnant at 17 years old. I had a little girl that I had contemplated what, what I should do, but, um, chose to give her up for adoption. I was 17 and hmm, my life was a party, so I really felt at that time that I couldn't give her what she deserved.
So I, I chose to give her up for [00:11:00] adoption. And I, I can't say I like, thought about it every day, but I thought about it often and definitely thought about it every January on Amy's birthday. I always wondered, hmm, she looked like me or not, or, um, what she was doing. And as she got older, I'm not gonna lie, I, I did have some concerns that there would be a, a child show up on my doorstep and tell me that I owed them, which I probably did, but yeah, I had some concerns of how it would play out if it ever happened.
Haley Radke: I'm just curious, did your family know that you, you placed Amy for adoption? Like did your parents know and everything?
Fleurette: Yes.
Haley Radke: Okay. Okay. Yeah,
Fleurette: Everybody, so, and, and I guess going [00:12:00] back to that, back in that day, it was for a 17-year-old girl to get pregnant was shameful to the family and my, my mother since a number of times has apologized for that. And the more and more she knows Amy, which she's known Amy now for 20 years, she, um, she couldn't even imagine her life without Amy. Like she can't even imagine that she could ever have felt that way. But back in the day, that's what society kind of, they made you feel that way, right? They…
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Fleurette: They made you feel like it was wrong. So, um, I did, I, I gave Amy up for adoption and one, December Boxing Day, my mom and I were doing dishes and she says, I, I have [00:13:00] something to, to show you. And I said, oh, okay. That's great. Going back I, after Amy was born, anytime I moved or changed something, I would update my records with social services so that I thought if she ever want, Amy ever want to get ahold of me, it would be easier for her if everything was always updated.
My dad had just died of cancer just before that, not that long before that. And so that's what I thought she was gonna tell me that she had cancer. So we went into the bedroom and she said, well, I got a phone call and I got a letter a couple weeks ago and I'm thinking, hmm, I didn't update your records in social services.
So she just said, yeah. She says, well, it turns out your cousin and his wife. And I said, yeah. And [00:14:00] it says, it turns out their oldest daughter is yours. So that was very, hmm, that was very, like, it's shocking, right? It's kind of surreal because you've thought about it for 18 years and then all of a sudden it's right there. So it didn't really seem like it was real, but as soon as they told me who Amy was, I went back to the family reunion and I knew right away who she was because there were times at the family reunion where Amy and her cousins would be sitting with the adults, and you know how it is when you tell a story and someone, you're telling someone a story and you finish a story and they, they just keep looking at you and you want to say, okay, I'm, I'm done with my [00:15:00] story. So I remember going back to the family reunion that I would look over and this girl was just staring at me. And so, yeah, I, I knew right away who she was. They didn't have to tell me to remind me what she looked like or anything. I knew, I knew right away who she was.
Haley Radke: So, Fleurette, did your mom, did she know that Amy had been placed there, like did she have suspicions? Because I mean, the timing, like my daughter just had a baby and then my cousin adopted.
Fleurette: Yes.
Haley Radke: The timing is kind of uncanny.
Fleurette: Exactly. So my dad came from a family of 12, so Amy's, um, adopted grandmother and my father were brother and sister. My mom, my oldest sister, and a number of my aunts had all suspected from, [00:16:00] from way back, almost from day one, and I'm not sure how it is now, but back then we had to write a little bit about ourself. And I know Amy will say I wrote a very little bit about myself and they adopted parents, wrote about them. So the whole situation with Amy's adopted dad and his brothers and how they, you know, kind of ranched and it just was too, too much the same and like too much the same as the situation. So my mom and my older sister and, um, a number of my aunts all suspected that Amy was, but back then you, you couldn't approach and you couldn't ask questions and no one would, would approach [00:17:00] me for sure because I had no clue. And I had seen Amy, uh, I think three times by the time she was 16. I had seen her when she was two and there was another time, and then when she was 16, but I had no clue then.
Haley Radke: You said that you sort of feared this child showing up at your door sometimes, and then yet you kept all your information up to date with social services.
Fleurette: Yeah. Well, I did because it, even though I had a fear of it, it was still what I wanted.
Haley Radke: So your mom sits you down, tells you that Amy is your daughter. How does, and you mentioned that you've been a reunion for, you know, like 20 years, but how do you first connect?
Fleurette: Well, uh, Amy had written a letter to my mom. So mom gave me the letter. So I think it was your birthday, wasn't it Amy, January?
Amy: Yeah.
Fleurette: I called you. [00:18:00] I called with very much my husband, like, okay, come on. I said, yeah, I know I want to, but I was like, just a fear, right? So I thought, okay, well I'm the adult here, so yeah, I need to step it up a notch. So I did call and we chatted and then I think we talked another one or two times, Amy.
Amy: Yeah.
Fleurette: And then we decided that we would meet. And we did meet at my mom's. I was living in Winnipeg at the time, so Winnipeg really wasn't bringing her to Winnipeg. And mom was kind of common ground. Amy knew mom, not real well, but knew her. And so we decided to meet at my mom's place. She's small town, Saskatchewan. And yeah, [00:19:00] we met there one weekend. Um, my sister, one of my sisters and my mom and I picked Amy up at the bus. I flew into Saskatoon and then we picked her up at the bus and we went to my mom's. It was a very, very difficult weekend for me. I thought like Amy was amazing. That part was not difficult at all and she was nothing that I had a fear that, that I maybe created. So that was wonderful. My family was right away, it wasn't half a day and there was no, to them, there was no, not Amy in our family before. So to my family, it was immediate. For me it was, it was a very, very exhausting weekend. It was very heady. I did go home and, um, when I flew home after the weekend, [00:20:00] Dale picked me up at the airport and he was all excited to hear about it. So how was it like, it must been awesome. And I said it was, it was a terrible weekend. And he said, what? He says, wasn't she, she, she wasn't good? And I said, no, she was awesome. She was amazing. I said, but all of these things that you meet somebody like in the movies and you have instant connection and love and that's not, I said, that's not how it works. I said, I met an adult that yes, I have a con, I feel a connection, but I met an adult person that, and then feeling guilt that I didn't have all this amazing, like love for this person. I care, I knew I cared about this person, but [00:21:00] then feeling guilty and feeling shame and that I didn't, and yeah, it was very, very, a very confusing, difficult weekend for me.
I was very happy it happened. Don't get me wrong, but it was very, yeah, all the things that I expected of myself, I, I didn't have all those things. So I felt shame and bad and yeah, I don't know, guilt and wanting to feel something I didn't feel yet. And, and I say yet, because that was a long time ago and all those things that I wanted to feel then, I feel much more now, that and way more. But yeah, it's, it was not, it was a very difficult weekend for me.
Haley Radke: Amy, what was your experience of that weekend?
Amy: Yeah, it was also difficult for me.
Fleurette: [00:22:00] Mm-hmm.
Amy: It was a hard weekend. I mean, it was, it was so good in, so, in so many other ways. So, I mean, obviously super nervous. Like I took a bus by myself to, um, Saskatoon and, uh, yeah, Brett and my grandma were there to meet me and, um, yeah, it's just like she just said, it's not like you see. Or that I saw, you know, on when you, reuniting with someone and it wasn't like full of that. I mean, again, yeah, you're just like happy to see this person and it's like you're so nervous to, and you finally meet and, and whatever. But yeah, it's the same thing. It's like, I, this is a stranger, you know, to me, and it's confusing because you're like, you know, in your head like, this is your mom, but still a stranger, you know?
But I mean, like she was just mentioning before with, with my grandma, like my grandma was there and like there was no beat skipped. It was just kind of like I got off the bus and it was like full on, like hug and just so happy and [00:23:00] oh, that was really good. Yeah. So we went there for the weekend and same thing, like all my aunts and uncles came and all the kids, um, I call them kids, they're not kids anymore, but at the time they were little. So I'm the oldest cousin and so there was just all these littles and so I got to meet them and that was just so wonderful. But yeah, just so overwhelming. And I was 18 too, like, I mean, you know, when you're 18 and you think you know everything, you think you're such an adult and, you know, I wasn't, like, I was just a kid.
So yeah, that was, it was hard for me too because I, I just didn't really know how to navigate it and I, I felt the same. Like, I just, and then I thought she didn't like me, like when, um, when, when the weekend was over. because I'm like, I just feel like, I don't know, like, did she like me? Didn't she like me? Because I mean, now I recognize it was hard for her too, obviously. But at the time I was just, I felt completely overwhelmed and I [00:24:00] left and I felt so sad when I left. And I just, you know, it was just all these expectations that weren't met and I, and I don't know. I guess the, the expectations I had of myself and how it would go, and it just, it didn't happen that way.
Haley Radke: It's so interesting to me because I thought that maybe this would go a little smoother for you guys because, you know, Amy you are adopted basically into the extended family and so…
Amy: Yeah.
Haley Radke: You know, you talk about these similar upbringings like the farm and ranch and all this rural, you know, Saskatchewan kind of stuff and, and yet still like it's not quite, yeah. Wow. Well thanks for sharing that ladies, because I think it's so good for people to know like reunion is not like a TV show.
Fleurette: No.
Amy: Gosh no.
Haley Radke: It's so not. No. So here we are 20 years in. You guys are really good friends, you have a great relationship, but I'm sure [00:25:00] there's been ups and downs. We already heard a little bit of that, but Fleurette, can you think of a time that was just like really challenging? Like this, this meeting sounds like that. Did you have other spots in reunion that were challenging as well?
Fleurette: Oh, you know, I have to say there, I could list tons of them where it was so difficult. And I mean, I'm, I have been blessed with Amy that her and I have been able to talk about every single little feeling that we've had through the process. So that in itself is, is wonderful. And that it doesn't mean that every time she said something that I felt good about what she said, you know, when she told me things like, there were times I didn't like you, like I hated you. And times I thought like, why couldn't you [00:26:00] have just tried? You know? Like, not that she didn't have a great upbringing, and I think she did and I mean, that's for her to tell her story, but to hear those things, you don't feel real good about that. And there was times, there was lots of times that it was, it was tough and it was, you want to give up, but I had made a promise to myself that I, I wouldn't give up. And, and there's lots of times people treat you like, treated me, I guess for probably some of the most difficult stuff for me was treated me like I, I didn't have a right to be in Amy's life. That a birth mother, and it still is, I still have people 20 years later that I'll speak to and tell them about Amy and I tell her my daughter and, because she is my daughter and my grandchildren. And then when they find out that I gave her [00:27:00] up for adoption and that we've been like in reunion for 20 years, their whole, most people, they change speaking to me. Not that they, some people, it's not that they're rude to me or anything, but it just changes. It changes, that birth mothers and it still is that way, which is really crazy in our society because we think we've come a long ways, but there, it's still to this day, even myself at my age, at 56 years old and professional woman with children and grandchildren, people still have that birth mothers are, yeah, like kind of trash and we're just, we were just supposed to be, um, a vessel and then we're supposed to [00:28:00] disappear. So it's not, I don't think, maybe because of my age now, it's not as harsh as it was, but yeah, I got lots of, I didn't have a right to be in Amy's life and that you're not, you're really not supposed to exist. You're supposed to not exist anymore. So that wasn't always easy to take.
Haley Radke: So you said that you guys talk a lot about lots of different feelings and like you're really real with each other. Amy, do you remember some particularly difficult conversations where you shared something that you thought, oh, I don't know how she's gonna take this?
Amy: Well, I think I, I don't, I, I think that particular conversation, but I, I think that what she was just trying to describe and what I would kind of say similarly is it's been really difficult trying to find a place in each other's life sometimes, or where we fit in each other's life or where we think we fit.[00:29:00] Just like, yeah, I mean, I, I've been frustrated in the past 20 years at times just feeling like, and I now know it's because she didn't really know where she fit in my life. So she, she just kind of backed off sometimes because she thought that's what she should do. Whereas I was like, what the hell? Like, why are, why are you, like, what? Like, is it something I said or like, you know, just feeling like maybe she doesn't want to do this and she just doesn't want to hurt my feelings and say that, you know? And so just really wanting her to be more of a part of my life and, and feeling frustrated that I thought that she didn't and she was just, you know, not saying so kind of thing. Like, so yeah, like I've, I was frank with her a couple times, I'm sure. And it wasn't, I'm sure it wasn't nice and you know, I do feel bad about that now, but it's just like, yeah. That kind of stuff where it's just, I feel like it took us a long time to get on the same page. [00:30:00]
Haley Radke: So one, one spot I find adoptees who are in reunion, their relationship with their first parents changes, is when they have children. So Amy, when you had your first daughter, how did that impact your and Fleurette’s relationship?
Amy: Well, I think with having my first daughter, I do remember shortly after I'd had her in the hospital and it was just her and I, you know, after the, everything happens and everybody leaves, and then it's just you and, and the baby. I just remember thinking like, oh my gosh, you know, I can't imagine having to hand this baby over to anybody, you know? And I remember thinking that very clearly and just thinking like, I just don't know how I could do that. And so just really kind of putting myself in Fleurette’s shoes and thinking like, I don't know how she did that and like having, you know, being compassionate [00:31:00] about it, having compassion about it and, um, yeah. And I think with, like with my first daughter, I think that too, in that time of both of our lives, like I, I was going through a lot. I had postpartum depression quite severe after my first child. And Fleurette was going through a hard time in her own life at that time. And so I think it was, it was difficult for both of us, but I think after I had my second daughter, when things kind of were better for Fleurette, um, in her life and better for me, like I had a totally, completely different experience the second time around being pregnant. And it was just after that I really, that's when I was really like, I had a lot of compassion. Like, I just felt a lot of compassion for, because I sat here, you know, I have these two girls and I just can't imagine being in that place where I, I would have to relinquish them, somebody else and just feeling like, I am her only daughter. I'm Fleurette’s only daughter. And so just thinking like, this is [00:32:00] it for both of us. Like this is whatever I have for children is what she's gonna have for grandchildren. And so just really, I feel like after I had my second child, that's when things were really put into place for me. And I just thought, you know, I really need this and, and I really, I just felt a lot of empathy and compassion for her. And I think that's, for me, when things really clicked or changed, I guess, I don't know if Fleurette would feel the same, but…
Fleurette: When your first daughter was born that, I wasn't in a, in a great place personally either. And also felt like a lot of those feelings for me came back that she had grandparents and I really wasn't, I shouldn't be in her life. People are looking at me like I shouldn't be in her life, that this is grandchild for Amy's parents. And it wasn't, I was, I really wasn't [00:33:00] there to fit into that. And as number two came along, I have, yeah, it really changed for me. I, I felt better where I was in Amy's life. I felt better, I felt more secure about where I was and had got to the point of I don't really give a [expletive] what anybody else thinks anymore. I am in her life and she wants me in her life. So if the rest of the world wants to think it's a terrible thing, I don't know. I'm too old for that. I don't care. And my relationship is different. I mean, they are two different girls and I love them both equally. Don't get me wrong. I love them both equal. But Amy's second daughter, I am, well, we have more of a same personality, maybe that's why. But um, yes, I'm, I feel more like I'm her,[00:34:00] I feel more like I'm her grandmother at this age than with Amy's first daughter. I feel grandmother to them both now. But at this age, I feel 100% that I am Amy's second daughter's grandmother. No question. And it took a few years before I could feel that with Amy's first daughter. Because I didn't, I was at that same thing with Amy. People tell, looking at me like, I don't belong there. I'm not supposed to be there.
Haley Radke: Fleurette, can you take us through just like a bird's eye view, 20 year reunion, has it just settled in these last few years since Amy had her second daughter that you felt more comfortable and like you had a place in her life or did it kind of go up and down? What do you think?
Fleurette: Well, it's gone up and definitely gone up and down and [00:35:00] each like, well, I'm going to say each year, it's not necessarily each year, but each, as each year passes, it became more and more that we were, we were mother daughter and something Amy's adoptive mother did tell me way back and I, through tough times of feeling like I didn't belong, I would go back to it. And she told me one time, she said, Fleurette, this is our normal. She said it is not, because it had come to a point where I was really upset some one time with people telling me or treating me like I didn't belong. And she and I had had a conversation and she just said to me, she goes, Fleurette, this is our normal people don't understand it because it's not their normal. She said, this is our normal. She says, I knew my whole life that this is how, [00:36:00] that I would have to share Amy with her birth mother at some point. She said, so I just, this was our, this was my normal, this was going to be my normal life. That's not normal for somebody else, but it's normal for us. So for me, that's what I held onto lots of times when it was really, really crappy, I just kept going back to that this is our normal, I don't care if you don't understand it, you don't have to understand it because it's not your normal.
And so yeah, there was lots of, lots of ups and downs. Sometimes felt really close with Amy and sometimes we went through times that, not so much. But yes, definitely I would say the last five or six years, Amy?
Amy: Mm-hmm. Yeah, probably five or six years.
Fleurette: Yeah. Have been where I feel like no one can tell me Amy's not my daughter.
Haley Radke: Hmm.
Fleurette: Like she is my daughter. I don't have to explain [00:37:00] that she's not just my daughter, that she is my daughter. So yeah, probably the last five or six years for us, for me anyways, is where I've felt really, really like I belong the most, like belong all the time. Like I don't feel times anymore that I don't belong.
I know Amy has also an adopted mother and a very good adopted mother in my opinion. And I think she's a great person, but I don't feel like I need to take a, I don't need to take a backseat to it anymore. I don't feel that anymore. And there are lots of times in the last 20 years that I have sat and felt like, I wish, I do, I just wish she’s just mine. But yeah, so last few years, and I, I just want to say something about my family. I [00:38:00] am thankful every day, the last 20 years that they have not skipped a beat with Amy. There was no them ever, we need to feel adjusted that she's in her life. There was never, ever that moment from the day they met her, she was their cousin, their niece. She was their family. My mother was that long time before the 20 years. My mom was long time before that. She was, this is my granddaughter and so I'm very, very thankful my family has never skipped a beat with that. So very blessed with that.
Haley Radke: So it only took 14 or 15 years for this to feel like normal. Is that, is that right?
Amy: Yeah.
Haley Radke: Amy, is that, is that true for you?
Amy: That is true. Yeah. I think, well, you know [00:39:00] what though? I just, I just feel like this is a good opportunity. I'm so grateful, Haley that we've met. Like you and I, I was like fangirling on you and we end up, we end up living in the same city. And so we've become friends. And so I'm thankful for this opportunity because I think that when I do tell this story to people, everyone's always so invested and interested in it and people who aren't adopted or even in reunion and so I feel like obviously I know your audience, you know, or people like me. And so I just feel like this is such a good opportunity to tell people, like, don't feel like if things are not going well, that that's not norm, you know what I mean, like that's not normal because like reunion is hard. It is very hard. It is hard work and it is not easy. So it's just, yeah, I think that, yeah, 14 or [00:40:00] 15 years and I mean, I think now we have a really good, a great relationship and you know, and like Fleurette was just made reference to a lot of why I hung in there was because of my family, my extended family, her family, you know, aunts, uncles, cousins, and my grandma because they did not skip a beat. And I do not feel one ounce different than anybody else in that family. You know? So they've just shown me a lot of love. And so that was a lot of it was, it was great encouragement for me to, to hang in there, you know?
Haley Radke: So if, if you had been like, well, I think I'm gonna pull the plug, but I just can't let all these people go.
Amy: Yes.
Haley Radke: I, I mean, I'm just being honest, right? This is some of the things that go through our head, right?
Amy: Yes, absolutely. I could not, like, I, I did think that, I did think that at certain times, especially early on, you know, I did think [00:41:00] that more than once. Like, I, I just don't know if I can do this anymore. But honestly, I could not, I couldn't do that just because I just like, I love them so much and I, I, and to this day, I mean like I still have such great relationships with them and like, I couldn't imagine my life without them now. It's just not even fathomable to me. They were like a lifeline for me in a lot of, a lot of day, a lot of days.
Haley Radke: And Fleurette you had said too, like you had just decided no, I'm here. I'm in it no matter what kind of thing.
Fleurette: Yeah, I, I did and I, I had to tell myself that a lot of times. Because I felt a lot of times that I need to give up. Like I just feel like this is just too hard. But then you know what you got, you felt like that and then you woke up the next day and you thought, no, I I, that you can't give that up. And there is [00:42:00] so, like, nothing good comes without working for it. So I kept telling myself that, that this is good. And yeah, there were tough times, but there's also good times in those tough times.
But yeah, you, I, I don't know. I, I just can't even fathom the thought that had I given up. I mean, we weren't super tight like we always, like we are now, but yeah, that I just, I just couldn't, and I keep saying it, and I know I'm repeating myself, but I just, yeah. I, I, I can't even, the thought of that I could have given up is just can bring me to tears.
Haley Radke: And you guys have always lived a fair distance from each other, is that right?
Amy: No, we did live in Saskatoon at the same time for a few years. Yeah. Yes. I think there was about five or six years in there. Five years maybe that we lived…
Fleurette: Yeah, I think so.[00:43:00]
Amy: …in the same city.
Haley Radke: So practically speaking, how do you guys keep up your relationship? Are you talking on the phone? Are you texting? I sound like an old lady now, but, um, are you texting?
Amy: We we try to talk, I think we, we, we hope, like, I think we talk at least once a month-ish. And maybe I, I mean, we text a lot, like I feel like we text fair, fair often. Yeah. I do, I do try to text her, um, pictures of the girls quite often. Like. Which…
Fleurette: Which I love.
Amy: Yeah. because she isn't here, so, um, I do try to spam her with pictures of, pictures of the girls. But yeah, I mean, I obviously wish we saw each other more. Like, I am not gonna lie, I, I do wish we saw each other more, you know, and, and spent more time together. But I mean, honestly, it is what it is. And, you know, I'm grateful for the time that I do get to see her. Actually, I'm gonna see her this weekend, so I'm looking forward to that.
Fleurette: I, I [00:44:00] agree. I mean, I, I absolutely wish it was, we, I was closer. Like I am very envious and sometimes beyond envious, jealous of some of my friends who have their grandchildren near them. So I, I do and, and Amy.
Amy: Yeah. And me. Yeah.
Haley Radke: Oh, I, I know where I'm, I'm, I'm with my dad too when he's here. It's like, you know, the boys are the fun part. Yeah.
Fleurette: But I do, I do wish we were closer, but I, uh, we do text and Amy does send me, uh, pictures, which I love. And we try, we do try to talk once a month and…
Haley Radke: That's great.
Fleurette: Yeah. I would love it that I was in Edmonton and I could just be there.
Haley Radke: Well, I, you know, I know you guys have talked about a lot of hard stuff [00:45:00] this interview, so I really appreciate that. Thank you for opening that stuff up. I want to hear before we go to resources, some of the awesome stuff, some of the awesome moments, like the really great things that have come out of reunion for, um, both of you. Who wants to start?
Fleurette: Amy, you can start.
Amy: Um, um, oh gosh. Well, for me it, I'm, I'm gonna say it again, but, uh, I would say it's definitely, I mean, besides having a really good relationship now with Fleurette and like, you know, just having that, I, I do really love my family. Like, I love, you know, my aunts and uncles and my grandma, my cousins, and like, it's been one of the greatest joys of my life really, to watch my cousins grow up and just still be really close to them, to this day and, and good friends. And so, um, that's been awesome. And just having this great big, you know, like wonderful family to, to be in and, [00:46:00] and just, yeah, like I just feel after 20 years, like, like sometimes I look behind me and I just think, man, like I didn't think I was gonna make it a few times, you know? And, uh, and I did, you know, and I am happy about it. And so just I think that sense of like, feeling okay about where I am at and so thankful that I did. And I, I think what the great, another great thing for me too is like, I am super thankful that I did this at 18 because then I've had, you know, really since I turned 18 the rest of my life to, to have these relationships. You know, like it wasn't just, versus, you know, if I was like 45 or 50 and then just meet these people kind of on the fly. So I feel like I've, I've been able to create more time and space for these relationships.
Haley Radke: Didn't you and didn't you like celebrate at this point now you've been [00:47:00] in my life longer than without?
Amy: Yeah, we had a big party two years ago. Fleurette could talk about that. She, she hosted it.
Fleurette: Yeah, we could talk about that.
Haley Radke: Well, that must have been a high point. That's awesome.
Amy: Yes, it was. It was very fun actually. Yeah, it was just because I turned when I turned 36, then from that point forward, um, I would have been in their lives longer than I wasn't, you know, so going forward after 36, um, it was kind of like all that other time is behind me and, and every time or moment afterwards was just, you know, extra time that, that has kind of surpassed the time that I wasn't around. So it, it was very nice. It was, it was a really nice time.
Haley Radke: Okay. Fleurette, your turn.
Fleurette: Well, you know, I, I want to say ditto. I, I am very, very grateful for the relationship I have with Amy. And, and the more [00:48:00] I meet people and talk to people, I realized just how fortunate I am that Amy and I have what we have. I'm ecstatic about that.
And yeah, I guess the awesomeness of Amy being in my family without, I don't have to, I don't ever feel once that I need to worry that she's not part of my family. She, I'm so grateful that she's not different than anybody. She's not treated any different than anybody. She's just a part of everybody, like everybody is.
I'm grateful that my husband feels he, he has a, a stepdaughter, like he feels that. He feels Amy's his daughter, so, and Amy's girls are his grandchildren. So I'm very, very [00:49:00] grateful for that. So yeah, I'm just grateful for our life together. And yeah, I look back and think, wow, there were days and that was a tough struggle, but I also feel like that's done and…
Amy: Yeah.
Fleurette: If people just realized, hey, you know what, once the struggle's done, wow. It's just amazing.
Amy: And just to, and, and talk about it. Like don't not, like don't, don't not talk about it. You know? It's okay to talk about it.
Fleurette: Yeah. You have to, you have to. Amy, like I said before, Amy and I are so fortunate that we talked about every little thing, like, and more than once we talked about every little thing.
They weren't always easy conversations, but yeah, just talk about it. Talk about that it feels crappy today or talk about that I didn't enjoy, I didn't enjoy that visit because of this, or, yeah, just [00:50:00] talk about it because you're not going to go like, I, well, I'm not going to go anywhere. So I just feel like, I guess I made that decision that didn't matter how tough it was that I owed her that, and I'm happy I did.
Haley Radke: Well, I think, you know, going back to one of the first things you said in this interview, Fleurette, was that I have to be the adult, I'm the adult in this situation. And so, I mean, that's sort of like the adult decision, you know? I, I think that's amazing. Like that you stuck it out and both of you worked so hard to build this really beautiful relationship. So thank you so much for sharing. Okay. Does, is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wanna make sure you get in before we do our, our, uh, hobbled together recommended resources?
Amy: Uh, no, I, I don't think so. I, I think just, yeah, like what I said before about, you know, and Haley, you and I have talked about it, [00:51:00] just being real about how you feel and, and actually exploring those feelings and not trying to stuff them down and…
Haley Radke: Yeah. Yeah. That's important. Okay.
Fleurette: Very.
Haley Radke: Okay. So let's do our recommended resources. And you guys, you know, I ask ahead of time, is there any resources you have? And they're like, oh, your show. Your show is so great. I'm like, okay. But people are already listening to the show. Okay. Anyway, I'm going to go last. Amy, why don't you start.
Amy: Okay. Well, I'm just going to say your podcast. No. Um, it has been, honestly, your podcast. I, I, I came upon it and, um, about like two years ago. It's just been like a game changer for me, just, um, being able to hear other people's perspectives about adoption and, you know, just how they feel about reunion and how they feel about being adopted, and it's so validating. So that's been great. And then well, are you gonna talk [00:52:00] about our support group?
Haley Radke: I was, I was, but you go ahead.
Amy: Okay. That's okay. I'll let you do it. I'll let you do it.
Haley Radke: Okay. Okay. Okay. Fleurette, what would you like to recommend or say?
Fleurette: You know what, I, I don't, I don't. As a, actually, I listened to your podcast and that's kind of how I got started on, you know, I've always been, I shouldn't say that. I've always been interested and always reached out to people that were either adoptees or birth parents or adoptive parents. And I've always been, it's always kind of been a passion, clearly for a lot of obvious reasons for me to understand. But your podcasts are what really got me reaching out more to people and trying to, I'm actually trying right now working on it a little bit [00:53:00] a, um, support group. Um, and, but I'm not sure if it should just be birth parents or adoptees, adoptive parents, everybody. So I'm kind of researching that. I do have to say there isn't tons out there for birth parents, or I shouldn't, I guess I shouldn't say that. None that I have found. And I would like to say to anybody that, birth parents especially, but anybody that if you need to ever talk, anybody needs to chat or ask questions or just need someone for a shoulder, I am more than happy to be that person. I, I just don't think there's lots out there, especially I find anyways for birth parents.
Haley Radke: Mm-hmm. So I went to the Concerned [00:54:00] United Birth Parents Retreat in California. So they're based in the US but they're a really great resource for birth parents and they have support groups across the US and I think a few internationally as well. And I'll put the link to that in the show notes. And there's also an organization in Canada called Origins Canada, and I think they were started by first parents, but they're also a resource for adoptees. So those are a couple of options for first parents to go and look for resources. I believe there's also a first parents group organized out of Vancouver, and so there's a few Canadian ones, but it's so funny y'all, because you know, you're not the first Canadians I've interviewed on the show, but by and large my audience is American, which just delights me to no end because, hello, I'm in Canada. Um, but I find that, you know, the US network just [00:55:00] seems like it was easier for me to connect with and Canada has just been, I don't know, I don't know what's up with that, but…
Fleurette: Yeah, I, I agree.
Haley Radke: I, there's little pockets here and there, but yeah. So if, if you're listening and you are in Canada and you know of some good Canadian resources, please reach out to us. We would love to link to those things from the Adoptees On website and talk about them on the show so people know about them.
Amy: Can I just say one more thing?
Haley Radke: Yeah.
Amy: Sorry. Okay. Um, I know, I know, I know Katrina Palmer listens to your podcast and I am, so I'm taking a minute to just say like, I love her book ‘An Affair with My Mother’, and I listened to her interview with you on the podcast and it was amazing. And so I am a huge fan. So I just want to say that's also one of my resources, but I know you've already used that as a resource, but I just, I'm going to say I loved it, so.
Haley Radke: Oh my goodness. [00:56:00] So yeah, it's been so good. And while we're recording this, we're sort of just about wrapping up Book Club. So by the time this airs, we'll have been finished, but that's been amazing. So if you didn't join Book Club, you missed out big time because Katrina has been in there answering people's questions and commenting like it's been really, really special. So I'm really glad I got to do that. Okay. I'm gonna recommend my thing. Well, you know what? This is so special for me because Amy emailed me, I don't even know when you emailed me. It must have been a year ago now.
Amy: Yeah, a year ago. Yeah.
Haley Radke: I probably still have emails in there from a year ago I haven't answered. But anyway, I didn't get back to her and then I finally emailed her a couple months later, which is about usually how long it takes me to, to email back. So just in case you've emailed me, I, it's in my inbox. Don't worry, I will get back to you. And anyway, so I emailed her back and then right away [00:57:00] she's like, oh, I just listened to your finale. I didn't know you were in Edmonton. And so we met up for coffee and that was like so special. That was the first time I had ever met a listener in Edmonton. I had met a listener at, listeners, at an adoptee conference before, um, but I mean, everybody was adopted there pretty much and, and so I don't know, for some reason that wasn't quite as like, this moment was like so special. And so I just have such fond memories of that and hearing your story in person and it was so powerful for me, and, and that's one of the reasons why I really wanted to start a support group in Edmonton. Not because I was like, ooh, ooh, Amy has some problems we need to work on. And don't take it that way. I'm, I'm the one that has the problems, but seriously, I, I was like, you know, we are just so great. Like, there's other people in my very own city that are dealing with similar things and, you know, to be [00:58:00] face to face in the same room, it's just something extra. So these, all the Facebook groups are great that are online and we can connect with adoptees that way around the world and that's really special, but just something about being in person is just amazing. And so we have started our group and the first few meetings were just me and Amy. So thank you.
Amy: It was sad. It was a little sad, but we, we managed to find lots of…
Haley Radke: Yeah, I don't know how we did that. We didn't just get our each five minutes, but we got the whole like two hours. So it's pretty good. But there's a little group of us now that have started meeting regularly. And so if you are in the Edmonton area, we'd welcome you to come and join us. And if not, there are adoptee support groups popping up all over. And maybe if there's not one in your area, maybe you're the one to start that, just like Fleurette is going to start something, right Fleurette? [00:59:00]
Fleurette: Yes. It's right. Yes.
Haley Radke: Okay. Well it's been so lovely chatting with you ladies. Why don't you tell us where we can find you online if people want to say thanks for sharing or if they have questions about reunion stuff, if they want to reach out to you. Amy, where can we find you?
Amy: Well, you can find me on Instagram. So my handle is ‘amynicrn’, so A-M-Y-N-I-C-R-N. And also you can reach me by email, which is, it's amynicrn@gmail.com. So same handle as my, as my Instagram, except @gmail.com.
Haley Radke: Okay, perfect. And Fleurette where can we connect with you?
Fleurette: Um, my email, definitely. It is ffg.gallais@gmail.com. Or I am on Facebook. My name is spelled very [01:00:00] odd. If you do wanna find me there, it's F-L-E-U-R-E-T-T-E, and the last name is Gallais, G-A-L-L-A-I-S.
Haley Radke: Wonderful. I'll put those in the show notes so people can, um, find it if you didn't write it down real quick while right now. Thank you ladies. That was really special to hear both of your stories and to get that little pic, that view into your relationship.
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Let's talk again next Friday.
