132 [Healing Series] Advocacy
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You are listening to Adoptees On, the podcast where adoptees discuss the adoption experience. I'm your host, Haley Radke, and this is a special episode in our Healing Series, where I interview therapists who are also adoptees themselves, so they know from personal experience what it feels like to be an adoptee.
Today we are talking about public activism and advocacy, the costs that's associated with it, how to hold our boundaries. This is such a great conversation. Let's listen in.
I'm so pleased to welcome back to Adoptees On, Melanie Chung-Sherman. Welcome, Melanie.
Melanie Chung-Sherman: Hi. Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Haley Radke: I am so excited we get to talk again because last time we were talking about microaggressions and emotional labor, and there's so many themes about working in advocacy and speaking up publicly about adoption. And you were challenging us on a number of things. I really just want to continue that conversation with you. I see you posting regularly on your public Facebook page, challenges about adoption, different adoption topics, and racism, and all sorts of things. And when I see those things, Melanie, honestly, I'm just like, ‘Whoa, how is she taking on this giant job and replying to the comments and all of that?’ That's a lot. When we talk about emotional labor, that's a lot. You're paying a price. So do you want to talk about that a little bit? What made you decide to challenge us in that way and really pay the price for speaking up publicly?
Melanie Chung-Sherman: It's been an organic process because that's always been part of who I am. In general, I mean, even from elementary school, I would be the person advocating for individuals who may not have had the same access to rights. Like, I remember I even had petitions going on about things that were happening about the teachers.
Haley Radke: You know what, that doesn't even surprise me. That doesn't surprise me in one bit.
Melanie Chung-Sherman: Especially growing up in this pretty much all-white community, and this Asian kid was challenging the status quo. Another thing that drew me into social work and into the profession as well, because it just kind of fit, I'm like, ‘Oh, not only is it backed by a code of ethics, but there's a whole group of people, they do that professionally. This is fun! And I get paid for it!’ But more than that, it’s coming from a space, that I would look and I couldn't find the integration of these observations. I couldn't find books, and I couldn't find –particularly when it came to the intersection between mental health work, my years of working in child welfare, from administrative positions, to case management, and then as a therapist– I kept seeing the themes and it would always feel siloed to me. And so even when I post, it would be nothing that I wouldn't share out publicly, verbally, or things that I haven't shared in other circles with individuals.
And again, I think social media has allowed a different kind of platform, but there's also then a dual responsibility. Not only as a licensed social worker where I think about code of ethics and really where my boundaries are professionally, and trying to stay in my lanes, but then also pushing up against what the status quo may be. And I really try to hold a responsibility, not as a provocateur. It really is coming– I've been hearing about this and seeing this for a very long time. Particularly when I'm listening to clients and loved ones. We have a really unique space in our adopted community, because adoption is a salient theme, and that's kind of where it ends. Because so many of us have different lived experiences, so I'm fascinated by the nuances of that.
And then what does that mean within our community and then in the broader community as well? Because so much of my formal education, and just my interest in terms of reading, it really has been then looking at, ‘Well, how has this impacted– How is this policy? How do these historically –the laws, funding, all of these things– all come back to oppression?’ And when we really then dig underneath that, we can start deconstructing even the things within adoption. Because adoption really lives and breathes in the world that, as I was sharing from the last podcast, holds a hierarchy of oppressive power and privilege standards that trickle all the way down.
And so just moving into a space like, ‘Oh gosh, well, the intersectionality within our community is broad and diverse, but it's also pretty thematic. And it's pretty predictable.’ And so learning about that, I'm like, ‘Oh, I can't just keep that in, to myself,’ because these are the things I'm sharing, between colleagues and clients, I'm just curious about. So sometimes it's also a space of going, ‘Huh, I'm gonna put it out into the universe because I don't think I'm the only one who's been thinking about that.’ You know, there's so many other amazing researchers and clinicians, and academics, and activists and advocates who are doing amazing work in our community, adoptee-identified people. And so I also want to give cred to them because their voice also inspires mine and other activists through the years. It comes at a cost, and that's where we have to be really mindful. Because there's times I'm just exhausted by it. But I know that I'm not the only one holding that, and having the supports of other friends, particularly in our community, has really been a life-changer and a lifesaver. Because there's very few, I think, that function in that space. But it's definitely not off-limits to anyone else who chooses to do that. I think that people have to be really mindful of the cost.
Haley Radke: Well, before we go into the cost, yeah, wow, I'm curious because you were saying that you share publicly the things that you have shared in person, with people or at an event when you're speaking. That's what I'm sort of getting from what you said. How did you first decide which pieces of your story were going to be accessible out that chain? So, that you've told in person, or on your Facebook page? Because I think there's a trickle there that can easily get into a waterfall, that you can't take it back. Especially on the internet, right? It's out there, it's out there. So that's peace, like, to make the conscious decision of ‘What part of my story am I going to share and at which level?’ If it's between friends, or public, out there forever, right?
Melanie Chung-Sherman: I think the boundary is really important and I think that it's been actually through mistake and trial and error– So, I started working within adoption almost, I'll age myself, about 20 years ago. And I was young, I was naive, and I was not out of the fog, per se. And so I had overshared quite a bit at the behest– and also the pleasure. I would get the affirmations and accolades from agencies. I was the quote-unquote “good adoptee”. And it wasn't until I went to grad school back from MSW, and then started working at Child Protective Services out of Dallas, I was an investigator for a number of years, and it changed my narrative. It changed my life. And so the things that I wish I could retract now. The internet wasn't as prolific as it is now. I do see that sometimes, particularly with those who are just moving into the space where they're finding their voice. So I'm also thankful it wasn't as prolific, the internet.
But at the same time, the decision consciously now, that what I would share online is the same thing that I would share in person, and that I stand by, or that I've written, or I've had materials published, things that– I can literally stand in front of my children, and hold that narrative with both pride and –it doesn't have to be in this beautiful, perfect package– also in a real, honest and authentic space. Through a lot of private work, through my own therapy and through the support of loved ones and chosen family, I can now share this out in a much more constructive and also, I think, integrated way, that ‘Yeah, this is a truth and this is a part of my life.’
But it's also then, underneath that, undergirding that, there's a message of, ‘In what ways will we bend the walls?’ I really try to be conscious that the things that are shared out that are personal, it's not so centered on my own experience or voice. As in: ‘Because Melanie's a Korean adoptee and she says this, it must be for all.’ No, no. I really want people then to think on a much more dynamic and complex level, and then kind of see where that goes. And I'm mindful when I share that out, whether I'm speaking in front of an audience or I'm speaking just one-on-one.
So I think that's really important: finding the balance between what you want to share out personally to get a point across, that doesn't lend itself where you begin to lose that part of your own story and identity authentically; that it is my authentic parts that I've done a lot of work on, so I can share it out, not because of the things that happen that I have to. And that's why I draw a line, particularly when people ask really personal questions, particularly if they're asking about my background, or like my [unclear: sounds like “adopt”; could be “adult” or “adoptive”] family. Or I'm very private when it comes to my children: “Not at all. That is their narrative.” And I think for adoptees, most of us are really attuned to the protection and privacy of that, that ‘My storylines are mine’. And I have to be responsible and own that: of what comes in and then also how it goes out. But that's come through a lot of mishap and mistake, naivety, impetuousness. Like, there was this space of, like, ‘I gotta share it. People have to know.’
Haley Radke: Well, one of the things you said actually in our last episode when we were talking about microaggressions, you mentioned that it can be, I think the word you used was “intoxicating” in the beginning. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Melanie Chung-Sherman: Absolutely. When your story is validated, and it becomes real– at least for myself coming out of the fog, I was thinking I was all alone in this. And then I had a tremendous privilege and opportunity to hold these spaces in terms of training, and speaking at conferences, and doing all these other events in adoption. It can be very intoxicating, and it was. I would get the immediate validation or feedback or “You know so much about adoption, and you do all these things!”-- to a point, and then it becomes toxic. Because without really sitting back and A) taking care of self and B), really being then held accountable– My other loved ones would be like, “You know, I just, I noticed these things that–” It was loved ones, it was also friends within the adopted community, close friends who would come back and say, “When you're sharing this out, I just have a question about that.” And so actually, not in terms of confrontation, but in terms of love and kindness, to go, “When you share that, I have questions about that. What is the motivation behind that?”
So I've been really privileged in my life. I don't want a lot of “yes” people. I want people who are going to challenge what that's going to be and look like, and hold us to a really high standard when we have these platforms. We have to –when we have the privilege to do that within our own community, but particularly out in the broad community– we have tremendous responsibility of what we do with our words, with our actions, with our story. Because I'm also thinking now as a parent. Whatever I put out there and how I share this, the legacy of adoption, and the legacy of how this gets downloaded, also impacts generations that follow. Because it's out there on the internet. This will be out there. And so I really hold that as well, to try to balance what we say and do.
Haley Radke: I appreciate that, yeah. I appreciate you saying that.
You used that word “cost”. “There's a cost to this.” How much does it cost you? No, tell us a little bit what you mean by that, because I think we probably have an idea, but maybe not the whole picture.
Melanie Chung-Sherman: I'll say this, it's one thing when I could talk about safe topics like attachment and trauma, and really kind-of pushing back related to the pathology, especially with adoptees and labeling and names. It was another thing when I started talking about integrating race and racism, and sexuality and identity. That was almost a line for many. I lost friends, people I thought were friends. And I've also lost speaking gigs. I've lost credibility in some circles.
At one point it was intoxicating, those spaces within adoption communities where I could get out and be this platform or voice, as that adoptee that seemed to have it all together. And now, “You're talking about oppression? We can't talk about that. You just stay in your lane and do this.” So the cost has been emotional, it's been mental, it's been physical. It's come at a physical cost as well, where I've got to be really mindful, and I'm very protective of my time and energy because that can quickly get away from –myself at least, but I've seen that particularly in our community, of just doing, doing, doing, and not sitting in the space of discomfort, not sitting in the loss. Because that cost has been loss. And I don't know about you, but I, for myself, I don't like loss. I don't like complicated grief!
Haley Radke: Have we had enough loss? Have we had enough? Come on!
Melanie Chung-Sherman: It’s been a lot. And so when we speak about these complex subjects, it comes at a cost of relationship, and that is what I've grieved the most. That's times that I'm scared the most, of things that I want to say or put in writing, and then I'll delete it or I'll hold it. And many of those, even posting or even talking through it, I'll practice it out with someone else, for accountability. Because, ‘Am I in an energy, am I in a healthy space?’ that I can handle the pushback, and I can possibly even handle interpersonal connection that's going to be challenged. That's been hard. That's been really hard.
Haley Radke: Do you have any thoughts on this, maybe talking to an adoptee who has been online a little bit, kind-of putting their toe in the advocacy space and speaking up here and there. Do you have any words of wisdom for someone like that, and maybe challenges to those of us who have been in it for a while, but maybe our boundaries aren't quite firmed up yet? Thoughts on that?
Melanie Chung-Sherman: I think for those who are just starting, having a really good confluence of friends and peers and loved ones who can really not only love and support you, but also hold the words, not in a space of pushback, but accountability. If you have others with lived experience, you can really speak into that. One of the things that has been a life saver has been mentorship, really seeking out mentorship for those who have gone before. And that’s been everything, just hearing from others who have been in the roles of activism and advocacy, particularly in our communities. And sometimes that's hard, because at least for Korean adoptees, the first wave started a couple decades ago, but it really started taking off in the nineties. So it's been harder to find other mentors outside of a generational lived experience. But there are many, so I look at that in awe. And I also seek out counsel and wisdom. And we don’t have to agree –I'm not asking for agreement in all things, because that's pretty boring– but I think, a consensus of just mutual respect and wisdom. So those who are just starting, find other people that you feel like, ‘I wanna sit at their feet and just know.’ I've had amazing mentors, particularly women of color, who've been doing this work and can really just, “Sit down. You're gonna be tired. How are you taking care of yourself?” Like, “In what ways are you protecting your family? Are you protecting your voice?” Because even in this –we've talked about loss– I have to share that I've also gained amazing friendships, and amazing allyships, and those who are accomplices, in ways that I know if I stayed in the same space a couple years ago, I would've never been exposed to those with this hunger and passion– of all legs of the triad and outside in the community. And so that has been remarkable. So even if it comes at a cost, there are also great gains and we've gotta find that balance.
And for those who are doing this who are tenured, or battle-worn, we talked about the self-compassion and taking care of self, but then also constantly learning. And I think also then opening up, always giving the credit to those who've come before. And I think that's really, at least for myself, that's really important that we are giving voice to so many different perspectives. We can all learn and grow, and integrate new kinds of ideas and materials. I think because, not just as a transracial adoptee, but our narrative as adoptive people, we can move and navigate into a lot of different spaces and really sit in spaces –that many other people may find uncomfortable or unknown to them– in a really genuine way. And I think that opens up a lot of opportunity to really get to know someone else's story outside of our own without defense, really just sitting there. And that's what I encourage for all of us to do. I have to remind myself to do that cuz we can get really entrenched and ‘It's gotta be this way. I've been working so hard! I can't believe they're saying that! This is, oh–!’ and get really defensive. And I think that's also coming from, at least for myself, my own lived experience of: I'm waiting for the microaggression or I'm waiting for them to aggress, versus: I'm sitting here and I'm listening and then I'm going to take that in.
And then continuing to build healthy boundaries for yourself. It's okay to say no.
Haley Radke: Oh, yes. Love that one! The one other thought I wanted to share, you kind-of triggered this for me right at the beginning of this conversation, was just talking about how there are other people doing the same work. I'm reminded that when we do need to take that pause and kind of step back and just be like, ‘I just need to peace out for a minute,’ that the others fill the gap for us, right? And vice versa. When someone else is on their social media break, others will step in. So it's not all on your two shoulders.
Melanie Chung-Sherman: Oh, it's too much. And I think that's part of the healthy boundaries. And here's the thing, there's no monopoly on need. That's really a psychotic idea, like, ‘Without my voice–!’ There is no monopoly on that. It's there, we got it.
Haley Radke: That's the twist on “there's room at the table for everyone,” because there's no monopoly on need, that's so good.
Melanie Chung-Sherman: You'll find where your voice is valued, and then remind yourself of the value of your voice. And part of that is also rest and rejuvenation, restoration, as much as it is in engaging. And then holding whatever balance that you need to take care of. Because right now I'm on a social meeds cleanse and it feels good. I'm just holding multiple things and it's okay. You're like, ‘Okay!’ I really respect when people do that. And it's more than social meeds cleanse, it's, like, cleanse on books and the things that I am literally digesting on a daily basis. And really being mindful, not shutting out the world and not pretending it doesn't exist. The more work that we do, particularly in advocacy and activism, I was sharing with you before, it's in the forefront of my mind, and the drumbeat in the background. And sometimes I have to remember it's okay if it goes in the drumbeat, in the background, so I can be present for the things that I love and the people I love. Because when I can do that, I can fill myself up and be ready for the next thing, and invite that.
Haley Radke: I love that. Thank you. That was a perfect note to wrap up on. Thank you so much, Melanie, for your wisdom in this area.
I'm assuming when this gets posted, you'll be off that social media cleanse, so where can we connect with you online?
Melanie Chung-Sherman: I may be back by then!
Haley Radke: You'll be back, you'll be back!
Melanie Chung-Sherman: You can find me on Facebook on Melanie Chung-Sherman, LCSW, PLLC. You can just Google that, and that's my professional page. Also, mcscounsel.com is my website, and then Instagram, @mcscounsel. And I'm not as ‘on’ on Instagram. I'm pretty specific in where I'm going to share out, and where I have the bandwidth lately.
Haley Radke: I've learned so much from the conversations Melanie is having over on her Facebook page, so make sure you're following her there. That's my extra plug for that.
Melanie Chung-Sherman: Thanks.
Haley Radke: Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
Oh my goodness. So much good information from Melanie. I just value her insights so, so much, and I hope that you will re-listen to this episode. I don't say that every time we have a therapist on the show –I do a lot of the times, I feel like, in the Healing Series– but this week's and last week's, especially, I think Melanie hits on so many very deeply important topics. It can be easy for our brains to just kind-of scoot on past those points and go on to the next thing she's talking about, but I think there's a lot of things here that would be really helpful to revisit, for myself personally. And, you know, we're in this new year, 2020. Maybe you've thought about, ‘I don't know, maybe it's the year that I'm gonna make my first therapist appointment. Maybe I'm going to actually look at this adoption stuff a little deeper. Maybe I am going to join up with a state that's looking at changing some laws about adoptee access to original birth certificates…’ I don't know, maybe you've got some big plans going on. I challenge you, don't let this stuff settle down to the bottom of life.
It's easy for busy work and taking care of your family or friends, or just you doing whatever, going to work, whatever you do on the daily, it's very easy to let these deep things kind of just set at the bottom and to just let them go by. But just, can I challenge you? Don't do that. If 2020 is your year to take care of yourself, to actually look at doing some activism or advocacy or whatever that looks like for you, don't let these things that you hear from amazing experts every week, don't let that just settle to the bottom and don't do anything about it. Maybe it's the time to re-listen and take some notes and think, ‘Okay, what is my next step here?’ And I would encourage you to find an adoptee adoption-competent therapist if you have the financial means to do so. That's some of the best money I've spent, truly, in my healing journey.
So anyway, thank you so much for listening. I want to thank my monthly supporters: without you, this show would not continue to exist. There are some fun new things, new changes, new things happening over on Patreon, so I will be telling you about that coming up soon. If you want to partner with me monthly, Adopteeson.com/partner helps keep the show going. And I appreciate so many of you who have signed up and said, “Yes, I think Adoptees On is important and I want it to continue to exist in this world.” So thank you so much for that. Thanks again for listening, and let's talk again next Friday.
